Yes, much of that is true. But if every ship was fast, well armed, and well armored, then it'd just become a battle of "my weapons are better than yours." That is why, when designing ships, one area is weak and the other two areas are strong (the three areas being speed, firepower, and armor).
I'm not sure how stealth enters into the equation.
All canon TNO vessels still in use are heavily upgraded, haveing little in common with the actual movie and book ships but the exteriors.
And the area of hyperspace travel is extreamly hazy. Generally, the author uses whichever is more convenient for the story.
Along those same lines, point out a canon reference that shows that hyperspace travel is done point to point in straight lines. Most of my reading, ships simply jump to hyperspace and emerge at their destinations. They only time they diverge from this is when they are attempting to prevent themselves being tracked.
Corise claims his weapons prevent my weapons from targetting or tracking, effectively making them stationary guns. Uber...
Finally, as I pointed out, the issue does not rest soley in the design of the craft, which might be plausible on an IC level. It rests with the fairness and relative power of the craft: certain canon ships have been banned in the past because they are simply too powerful to allow for fair play (i.e. Abolishers, Sun Crushers, World Devestators).
Corise's ships, by and large, while based in canon/game tech, are extremely powerful with not shortfalls. They are heavily armoured (or were intended to be, the ultrachrome armour nonewithstanding), relatively fast, well shielded, and well gunned. Even in the case of a ship that is described as being "undergunned" in its design, it effectively is not undergunned because its guns are unaffected by shields. His fighters are fast/shielded/heavily armed/invisible.
If we go by the Armour/Weapons/Speed equation, he enjoys all three. PLUS stealth capabilities on top of those.
Number One - stop using atmospheric fighters as examples. The difference between a fighter in atmosphere and a fighter in vacuum is too vast for any real comparison to be made.
Number Two - Even if I grant that accelleration is key, if we're talking about canon Star Wars (which we try to at least keep a semblance of), all ships had a MGLT rating. Kach is right - generally, in the spirit of fair RP here, fighters that are heavily armored and have great firepower are slower.
Number Three - Stealth fits in as a fourth dimension to the general three-pronged speed, firepower, and armor. If your fighter is exceptional in all four areas, who cares if you're maneuverable. You can't be seen, you can't be caught if you are seen, you can't be destroyed if you are caught, and you can destroy anything in your way.
Number Four - Corise's armor has flaws that were pointed out by me several posts ago and have still not been addressed. Read Shatterpoint again, or take my word for it. I've read the thing about twenty times (no exaggeration). It took me about a minute to find the exact quotes I used. I know whereof I speak - ultrachrome would not be able to stand up to heavy turbolasers, much less Drayson's weapons.
Number Five - Corise has not given an explanation of how his weapons can fire through his armor or explained why the picture he chose as an example for his ships have weapons emplacements that are unarmored in the bow of his craft if he has decided not to have any there.
Number Six - The question is not whether or not Corise has posted his armor in an R&D thread. The problem is that he is using his R&Ds to create uber-ships and uber-weapons that no one can defeat. If you're allowed to design unstoppable ships, there's no point to roleplaying anymore. No one has any fun 'cause nobody but you can win. That gets boring, trust me. I've tried it.
Number Seven - The cost issues dealing with his fighters/capital ships have not yet been sufficiently addressed. And another question - how much does ultrachrome cost? Something that good had better cost a lot and be pretty darn rare. Otherwise, why can't the Empire just buy it and retrofit their starships with it as well? Or is it something only the Kashan can have?
Last of my OOC responses to this. I'll explain more after this.
I don't recall that from the books, nor do any other sources mention that at all either, which leads me to believe that that is pure conjecture.
And Drayson has posted no damage to ships in the post previous to that one.
Quadranium Carbide, a hard refractory ceramic. The reason it's not on the outer layer is because of the role it plays in the ERA.
I meant that there wasn't a cluster of emitters llocated everywhere ike a shields for example. It does have a barrel and what not.
If this isn't a R&D thread, why are we for the most part discussing technology?
The Tie Phantom Mk II is less descriptive and more stealthy the even the S9 is. How is that a point against my R&Ds?
You're correct. I meant in relative size to capital weapons. A space bomb is about the size of 3-4 Proton Torpedoes. And the fact that it only takes a hundred just to knock out the shields actually furthers my point. If that is the case, there probably shouldn't be anything left of a ship twice as small.
I have dealt with heat signatures in a similar manner as the USAF did with the Nighthawk. The heat is channeled out as it is generated through many small, different vents throughout the craft. As such, heat is instanteously dissipated before it can be detected. I should also note that the heat emission of any ship of starfighter size is very small and very hard to detect to begin with, as noted within the SSDS system.
Money isn't everything. And OOC, Kashan is much older and has a significantly developed economy focused on the military. This isn't something that's unique to me. Look at Hitler's Solidarity thread. Is it any more reasonable to have a neutral planet equipped with around 40 VSDs?
See the above. And yes, a fair amount of the fleet is in drydock most of the time recieving those upgrades. I realize it's not an automatic process.
Compare the A3 to the Missile Boat. It has the same shields, the same speed too. There is a compensation with maneuverability and acceleration, as it is, I don't see any compensation at all with your Tie Phantom II. And simply because it's larger doesn't make it slower, the C-wing is a good example of that, but it does affect the acceleration.
THe Battle droid is basically equivalent to an upgraded AT-PT in performance and size. Is there anything wrong with that? Yes, it can be destroyed by air strikes or heavy armor or artillery. But yeah, it's pretty hard to take down with simply infantry, and that's the point of the R&D.
I don't think it's possible to make a midturn of that magnitude in hyperspace, at least according to Omnae.
Ah I stand corrected then. Didn't see that last part on the Multi-XMAP
See above. Also note that KDI vessels are no more stronger than other high tech ships. Look at the Dragonclaw, which is the same size of the Seraph, yet it carries more weapons, is faster, and its armor has similar properties and abilities to that of the Seraph's. Can you say that the Seraph is any more uber than the Dragonclaw?
Explain why my attack was not successful as I believe, and my own damages are based on advanced armor that you still haven't disproved.
Which means nothing because depending on where the shot is coming from and where it hits the nose, the weapons wouldn't be affected at all. YOu did not say that it was a direct front-to-front thing. I assumed it wouldn't be because the Juaires were pointed at your fleeing ships, which were on a different trajectory than your own. The placement of vessels in relation to each other is also another matter. You did not specify.
See above.
You said it was equal to two heavy turbolasers. Two heavy turbolasers aren't going to bring down a ship's shields or deal with superconducting plating. Speaking of which, I don't recall BDE ships suffering from that weakness despite using superconducting plating, which is more or less TRF proof that turbolasers do not generate enough heat to do that, especially since turbolasers don't shoot heat, but pure energy, which does not contain heat as the primary means of offense.
I have yet to see anyone tell me that, and based on the actions and reports on the past, such as in the Liberator size case, I'm not inclined to believe you without proof of this matter.
It's pretty much a missile boat. See the comments directed back at Vos for more info.
Whoops, I'll admit the mispelling. But I think in terms of description, I think most of your weapons are actually described less than my own.
I could have swore it came a video game. My ship is also not invisible. It is possible to see if with the naked eye, but that's rather hard to do. See above.
THe Darksaber? ;) I have to agree. Fielding superweapons as starfighters is rather expensive. I don't see any production advantages that the Empire has over the Coalition either. As it is, KDI has a fair amount of automated factories. It's important to note that A3s aren't produced as fast or in the same numbers as most starfighters. There aren't as many made in a run and they are made at a slower rate. But they have a much higher survivalability rate due to their stealth capabilities, which leads them to last longer than their counterparts, and thus eventually accumulate.
Kashan had thirty years of other time to do the production and make the facilities and harvest the resources to make them. Never forget that.
Are my ships any more unfair than BDE's? My starfighters can't targetted directly, no, but there are indirect ways of targetting of them, and they've been done before. I suggest that. Yeah, my ships are resilient to turbolaser fire, but so are BDE's, SE's, and TNO's own Raptor Cruiser. It's hardly a feature unique to KDI vessels. Which guns are those? The Rail guns, which are used by nearly every faction in at least one design, all do that, something that is not unique. The Gravity Disruptor is a weapon unique to KDI I admit, but TNO has the gravity bomb, which does the exact same thing but in a bomb form and with a heavier and higher damage ratings.
Abolisher cruisers and pulse-mass weapons have been allowed, disallowed, reallowed, etc. My ships follow TRF R&D protocol. They are no more powerful than canon ships but do have some special abilities. Is there anything wrong with that?
That would be incorrect. I do explicitly state drawbacks or tradeoffs in all my weapons. For example, the railgun's rate of fire is lower by several times over compared to a turbolaser. As well, here is an example of another gun that simply isn't affected by enemy shielding: the Cree'ar plasma disruptor. Note that I don't see any drawbacks to it either.
See above. Also note that the Coalition has paid for and brought more orbital shipyards to Kashan.
See above.
Actually, no. They are slower. Look at the S9 Mk I thread. You'll notice that it is incredibly well-armored(because of the nature of the stealth armor), but also rather slow. The Mk II traded the thickness of the armor and reduced the shielding for equal improvements in speed and maneuverability. THere are always tradeoffs in those things. I make sure of it.
Right, and that's fine. But it by no means allows your starfighters to recieve targetting info from a capital ship. Albeit I doubt its actual effectiveness in detecting my ships(simply because how it works is rather vague), I have no problem if your cruisers equipped with the system go and enage my starfighters.
This is probably my most important point here: TRF is here for people to make interesting stories, to develop characters, to develop plots. I admit that I like R&Ds and how they can influence a chain of events. THey can be a great enhancement to a story, like the Centerpoint and HIMS were in the Corellian Trilogy. Here, BDE and the Cree'ar Dominion have done it rather successfully as well. And I was attempting to do something similar to BDE but instead of religion, have a strong miliateristic theme like Sparta. And so far, the idea has worked with other Rpers, even when they are going against me, such as Telan.
However, I'm finding with you that then rather letting technology enhance the RPing experience, you're coming up with minor, conjectural ideas that with much, if any actual hard proof. I find that the detail I put into my R&Ds to enhance the detail of the world I'm trying to create is being used to rip it apart by pure and possible conjectures.
My goal has never been to create uber R&Ds with which to crush all opposition. If it has been, why wouldn't I have gone off and started invading planets controlled by hostile groups, such as BDE, the Cree'ar, or the sole Union planet that the Coalition knows exists? I have not sought hostile OOC conflicts, indeed, Telan, Beff, and Kraken should know that if there is going to be a fleeting thread involving the Confederation and another force, I like to plan out the battle's procedure OOC with the said person in a manner which both parties agree to.
I have no intent of going on for any more pages of OOC bickering that accomplishes nothing when I could be spending the same time developing my characters or cultures or the grand scheme of cultural unity and assimulation throughout the Confederation. As such, because there is nothing now to keep my fleet from leaving the engagement with Trinity's fleet, my fleet will exit the engagement and find something more productive to do.
You're rebuttle to the evidence quoted from Shatterpoint ammounts to accusing Wes of lying, then? Which means we have to wait until someone else on the board can get a hold of the book and either confirm or deny such allegations.
I have no read the book, but I can say that based on what Wes has referenced from the books in TNO forums (with regards to unrelated projects), I'm inclined to take his word on this.
I admit that the damage to my Cruisers is underestimated. The problem is, you refuse to admit that the damage to your ships is severely underestimated.
If you'll note, what I said of the CPEC's main guns is:
Emphasis added. The CPEC carries four such emplacements, for a total punch that is very, very powerful. Enough to cause significant damage to a ship half its size, I do not doubt. And yet you take issue with it knocking out two weapons systems.
We've already discussed superconductors, and physically it is useless as a form of defence. Whether turbolaser shoot heat or not is irrelevent, because heat is a byproduct of their impact and thus renders the superconductors useless, allowing the full power of the turbolaser to be turned against the relatively weak ultrachrome.
On top of all of this, the area that my guns hit was not armoured! The weapons systems that were knocked out are in fact very vulnerable on the prow of your ships.
My attack on your Gunships is pretty specific:
They targetted the bow of your ships and fired. Your argument has just gone from "well, it's armoured", but once disproven on several grounds, has changed to "well, it wasn't a direct hit."
In fact, it was.
We're not discussing the Dragonclaw here. We're discussing your ships, and, specifically, the way you play them. Because there is no approval process for R&Ds, we rely on a system of playing fair with our designs. I can design a ship to say anything I want, but if I use it unfairly in an IC context, it's not going to fly. Whether BDE's ships are uber or not depends entirely on how they are played IC, and I have no experiance with them and can't comment.
The attack on my Cruiser by the bombers was disrupted, as described. Similarly, your armour has been disproven substantially. There is no more discussion to this; the book (as quoted by Wes) lays it out pretty clearly.
Your seemingly inherent assumption that whatever anyone arguing your points says is untrue is interesting. If you want proof, try searching this forum. Or consult a staff member. Either will tell you that game stats et al. are generally not looked favourably upon.
I cannot speak for the other members of TNO, but I can say that whatever highly specialized weapons based on unfamiliar technology are described to the best of my abilities.
Yes, it came from a video game. WEG = West End Games, the creators of probably the worst representation of SW ship combat, TIE Fighter and X-wing vs. TIE Fighter. Hence my reluctance to consider it as a viable comparison to your ship. I'll also note that just because a ship is canon does not make it a viable comparison - I direct you towards the Strike Cruiser comparison you used to design the Seraph, and Ahnk's comment regarding that.
You don't understand the point, though. Your ships are heavily armed, to the point that many of their weapons are unaffected by shields. They are (claimed/intended) to be heavily armoured. They are relatively fast. They are very difficult to target. And so on. Tell me, in the general Armour/Speed/Weapons triangle, what aspect to they suffer in?
They are substantially more powerful than most canon ships, for reasons already described. Better guns (if numerically less, they more than make up for that). Intended heavy armour. High speed. Apparently highly resiliant to any form of attack. In short, no weakness compared to, say, an ISD.
My opinion of your R&Ds is based entirely on how you are playing them. I have no problem with the concept of your advanced technology, even aplaud it. But not the manner in which you are playing them.
You are, in short, playing them as uberships. Which will simply not fly with me.
I find it interesting that you say you are interested most in the story, yet you raise objections to minor damage, and to how I'm going about detecting your fighters because it's "vauge". Need I remind you the major elements of your stealth package are virtually C&Ped from CUSWE? The alloys in particular contain no detail.
For your claim of wanting to determine a battle's outcome OOC, I have received no PMs to that extent.
Recall also that Metalorn is under attack, and by forfeiting that engagement you will (probably) lose the planet.
And so, somehow this actually occurred to me in the middle of the Calculus:
This is an instance where I don’t have to defend Ultrachrome (because there are already other RPs that show Ultrachrome being resilient to heavy turbolaser barrages), but rather, where you(Demos) have the burden of proof to prove beyond a doubt that Ultrachrome is obsolete and that it is easy overheated beyonds its critical temperature by modern weaponry. Why? Because Ultrachrome has already been rped several times as not being taken to its critical temperature despite being bombarded by turbolasers. Thus, you are breaking precedent. So consider the following:
Like you have already mentioned, superconductors have a critical temperature after which they crack. Ultrachrome is a form of superconductor, therefore it has a critical temperature. But can you prove that an attack like the one orchestrated by the EMPIRE ship is capable of producing such results?
Regardless if the EMPIRE hit the weakness points of the Pegasus’ shields, the weapon’s fire has still hit shields, which bleeds off energy needed to raise the Ultrachrome armor(which is a high temperature superconductor based on its description) to its Critical Temperature. But let’s talk about Ultrachrome’s Critical Temperature for a second, shall we? The characteristics of superconductivity occur when the material is below its critical temperature; that’s a no-brainer. However, the critical temperature of real-life modern-day high temperature superconductors is in the 130s of Kelvin, or around 15 degrees Celsuis or -22 degrees F. That’s relatively cold. However, Ultrachrome has been shown to work in significantly hotter temperatures in “Shatterpoint”, such as around roughly 90 degrees F(305 K) with no performance difficulties or any likely-hood of failure. That gives Ultrachrome at the very least an exceptional critical temperature, and if it follows real-life superconductor tendencies, performance increases as it gets colder and closer to absolute zero. The vacuum of space has a temperature of 2.7 K, or -458 degrees F, according to Jonathan Keohane, an Astrophysicist.
So what does this mean? Not only is the Critical temperature of Ultrachrome incredibly high, but it has a natural cooling system from the environment in the form of space itself, which completely and surrounds the ship, keeping the armor far colder than it needs to be operate. And it(space) is in infinite supply.
Also consider that concentrating heavy turbolaser or other energy fire on a certain section of the ship does not mean that the armor will superheat in that area. The most obvious property of superconductors is just that, they super conduct energy and disperse it equally among the entire superconductor at a near instanteous rate. Thus, it is impossible for only one section of the hull to quickly overheat, as that is spread equally throughout the entire hull of the vessel, which is either being absorbed or cooled by the vacuum of space.
And no, I haven’t forgotten Wes’ quotes. In fact, two of them actually support the above when he references the lightsaber’s energy being placed equally across the entire length of the Ultrachrome, and then the ultrachrome melting, and where a quick slash against one part does nothing to it as a whole, because it is quickly and easily superconducted the areas not hit by the blade.
If you're employing all the weapons of one to ship to fire on only another one ship, then I agree, and I will edit the same damage you have posted. However, it was not my impression that all of the guns from one ship were concentrated on another. On reading your below points, I see more of what your intended, and I will edit your damages in. But then, remember that there are still two undamaged Juaire's that together have fired the equivalent of 12 heavy turbolasers right back at one of your CPECs.
See above. The heat produced is a result of the material resisting the energy, which results in enthapaly. In the case of superconductors, that heat is theoritically does not exist because the resistance of the superconductor is 0.
See above. The book does not lay it out very clearly cut either.
WEG didn't create XvT, LucasArts did. Nor is the Missile Boat from XvT, but XWA, another LucasArts production. WEG is roleplaying company. And I don't think that Ahnk's comment meant much, as I've seen one of TNO's recent takeovers use solely strike cruisers. And if you would prefer, I could redesign the Seraph after the Curaisseur, and instead of 20 Turbolaser batteries and 20 ion cannons, carry instead 32 Heavy Turbolaser batteries. ;)
If anything, my above comparison to the Curaisseur shows that it's not incredibly overly armed. They are more heavily armored than most warships at the cost of speed, which was upon Kraken's suggestion. I don't see where you're getting the relatively fast part unless you're comparing it to decades old canon craft, which in comparison, it is. But the engine technology of that time is not as advanced or improved as that used by the various factions of TRF. After all, even with advanced engine technology on the Seraph Mk III, it's still just as fast as a certain star destroyer 150% of its size and it just keeps pace with the similarly sized Dragonclaw (note that the Dragonclaw trades offensive power for defence in comparison to the Seraph Mk III).
And most of the weapons are effected by shields. Only the railguns and gravitational field disruptors(which are a small minority of the weapons involved) do, and both of those are based on weapons developed by other factions that already aren't affected by shields. I'm merely following the precedent they set.
See the above for the most part. And the guns aren't better in power, just in range. BDE turbolasers have the same range through different means with no disadvantage as well. And an ISD would beat two Seraphs.
I fail to see how I'm playing them as uber ships. They're moderate in weapons, speed, and armor at least in terms of value. They have no specific weakness, but they don't have a specific strength either. I fail to see how I've used them as uber ships as well: they've taken damage whereas yours have not. They've launched attacks that have done no damage, but yours have.
But still more detail than what's being used on the Tie Phantom II or the any other stealth craft I've seen developed by someone else. And the actual composite armor itself and how it was formed was an idea of my own.
Of course not; Kach and yourself have already made it clear that this is competitive action to take Metalorn. I'm not inclined to simply hand over a planet I've taken without anything in return. I have yet to get the chance to talk to Kraken, but I have higher hopes for him them either of you.
I believe you misunderstood me. The only fleet that is possibly leaving the engagement is the one facing your(Demos) fleet. And then the said fleet is likely going to make an about face and harass the forces attacking Metalorn. I'm not forfeiting anything.
Yes, the burden of proof is on me to prove that ultrachrome is obsolete in comparison to "modern" armour. And that has been done. This contention is supported by canon, it is supported by physics, and it is supported by logic. Your basis for the value of ultrachrome is rooted in your belief that because you found it on CUSWE, it must be perfect.
The particular specific heat required to melt ultrachrome is irrelevent, because turbolasers produce many times that heat. The SWTC, in their description of Base Delta Zero, offer some insight into the relative power of turbolasers, and how much heat and energy they produce.
Simply put, I am highly cynical that any superconductor is anywhere near capable of shunting aside that kind of energy output. Can I prove it? Of course not. I'm not a physisist, nor is there enough knowledge of Star Wars technology to reach a certain conclusion.
However, we do have logic.
An interesting point, Corise, is this: a number of people have expressed concern with ultrachrome and what you claim it is capable of. And while, granted, they have all been TNO members, that does not make their opinions any less valid.
Simply put, Canon sources contradict your claims of what ultrachrome can do. Why that's not enough for you, I don't know.
If you're employing all the weapons of one to ship to fire on only another one ship, then I agree, and Noted, and noted.
The book lays it out very clearly when it says:
Note some keywords: "thousands of years ago", "sufficient", "low-fire-rate laser cannons". Sufficient, especially, implies it was capable armour. Today, better armour has been found. Pretty clear cut.
This passage implies two things to me: one is that ultrachrome can survive a glancing blow from a lightsaber. We're talking about a direct hit from a turbolaser canon. This weapon disintigrates many elements on contact.
You are correct about X-wing and XvT. That does not by any means discount my points about game "canon". Again, ask any vetern member about TRF's general view of games and see what the consensus is.
As for the Strike Cruiser, two comments: 1) TNO does not play them as uber. They are played fairly. 2) The Strike Cruiser has a specific weakness: because it is modular, it's hull lacks the structural integrity of a dedicated combat ship. It is thus eaiser to destroy than a similarly sized, non-modular warship would be.
If anything, my above comparison to the Curaisseur shows that it's not incredibly overly armed. They are more heavily armored than most warships at the cost of speed, which was upon Kraken's suggestion. I don't see where you're getting the relatively fast part unless you're comparing it to decades old canon craft, which in comparison, it is. But the engine technology of that time is not as advanced or improved as that used by the various factions of TRF. After all, even with advanced engine technology on the Seraph Mk III, it's still just as fast as a certain star destroyer 150% of its size and it just keeps pace with the similarly sized Dragonclaw (note that the Dragonclaw trades offensive power for defence in comparison to the Seraph Mk III).
And most of the weapons are effected by shields. Only the railguns and gravitational field disruptors(which are a small minority of the weapons involved) do, and both of those are based on weapons developed by other factions that already aren't affected by shields. I'm merely following the precedent they set.
See the above for the most part. And the guns aren't better in power, just in range. BDE turbolasers have the same range through different means with no disadvantage as well. And an ISD would beat two Seraphs.
I fail to see how I'm playing them as uber ships. They're moderate in weapons, speed, and armor at least in terms of value. They have no specific weakness, but they don't have a specific strength either. I fail to see how I've used them as uber ships as well: they've taken damage whereas yours have not. They've launched attacks that have done no damage, but yours have.
But still more detail than what's being used on the Tie Phantom II or the any other stealth craft I've seen developed by someone else. And the actual composite armor itself and how it was formed was an idea of my own.
Of course not; Kach and yourself have already made it clear that this is competitive action to take Metalorn. I'm not inclined to simply hand over a planet I've taken without anything in return. I have yet to get the chance to talk to Kraken, but I have higher hopes for him them either of you.
I believe you misunderstood me. The only fleet that is possibly leaving the engagement is the one facing your(Demos) fleet. And then the said fleet is likely going to make an about face and harass the forces attacking Metalorn. I'm not forfeiting anything.[/QUOTE]
Yes, the burden of proof is on me to prove that ultrachrome is obsolete in comparison to "modern" armour. And that has been done. This contention is supported by canon, it is supported by physics, and it is supported by logic. Your basis for the value of ultrachrome is rooted in your belief that because you found it on CUSWE, it must be perfect.
The particular specific heat required to melt ultrachrome is irrelevent, because turbolasers produce many times that heat. The SWTC, in their description of Base Delta Zero, offer some insight into the relative power of turbolasers, and how much heat and energy they produce.
Simply put, I am highly cynical that any superconductor is anywhere near capable of shunting aside that kind of energy output. Can I prove it? Of course not. I'm not a physisist, nor is there enough knowledge of Star Wars technology to reach a certain conclusion.
However, we do have logic.
An interesting point, Corise, is this: a number of people have expressed concern with ultrachrome and what you claim it is capable of. And while, granted, they have all been TNO members, that does not make their opinions any less valid.
Simply put, Canon sources contradict your claims of what ultrachrome can do. Why that's not enough for you, I don't know.
If you're employing all the weapons of one to ship to fire on only another one ship, then I agree, and Noted, and noted.
The book lays it out very clearly when it says:
Note some keywords: "thousands of years ago", "sufficient", "low-fire-rate laser cannons". Sufficient, especially, implies it was capable armour. Today, better armour has been found. Pretty clear cut.
This passage implies two things to me: one is that ultrachrome can survive a glancing blow from a lightsaber. We're talking about a direct hit from a turbolaser canon. This weapon disintigrates many elements on contact.
You are correct about X-wing and XvT. That does not by any means discount my points about game "canon". Again, ask any vetern member about TRF's general view of games and see what the consensus is.
As for the Strike Cruiser, two comments: 1) TNO does not play them as uber. They are played fairly. 2) The Strike Cruiser has a specific weakness: because it is modular, it's hull lacks the structural integrity of a dedicated combat ship. It is thus eaiser to destroy than a similarly sized, non-modular warship would be.
I have already addressed your ship's power, and will not do so again.
Yes, it is. However, in the beginning of the thread, that was no immediatly clear. I did not receive any PMs in that (albiet very short) time either. Nor have I received any proposals regarding the outcome of the thread. The outcome does not neccessarily have to be "TNO takes Metalorn."
I don't see how you've undoubtably proven Ultrachrome to be obsolete. As it is, your claim could possibly be supported by certain elements of physics, but I've shown by the same factors that it would be next to impossible to do so. I don't see the pure logic either. Ultrachrome isn't perfect, and I accept that. It can be defeated, and TNO players have defeated before, such as Telan.
Which doesn't counter the physicist point already mentioned that the heat is created by a reaction of the energy that composes the bolt and how it reacts with material. There is no enthalapy with a superconductor because there is zero resistance to energy being transferred in the first place. Heat isn't the main component of a turbolaser bolt. Pure energy is. Think about it, space is incredibly cold, the exact opposite of a heat. How does that make weapons formed of simply of heat an effective weapon? The heat would simply be bled off by the vacuum's temperature.
Indeed. It shows if you don't understand Enthalpy. The fact is, that even in modern star wars time, other canon technology has been developed that does the exact same thing: Molecular shields, used on the X-1 Viper. If there is shielding capable of that kind of energy, why is it so unreasonable that armor could do the same thing based on actual, real laws of physics and chemistry? How about another example, the superconducting thermal armor of the A-6 Juggernaut. Taken from Wookiepedia:
An interesting point is that while other factions have had, and do have, superconducting armor, there have been no compliants against those factions. BDE has used superconducting armor long before I was here, and TNO's Raptor Cruiser uses it. BDE set the precedent of mass-producing ships with superconducting armor. Why shouldn't the Confederation be allowed to follow suit? The only time TNO(with Telan) has gone up against it, it was beaten and pierced and that was written by myself, and not at Telan's prodding. TNO shouldn't have anything to worry about if I've played it how I've played it with Telan. That being said, I'm not going to be a complete walkover either.
You have yet to prove that.
That's not yet confirmed. And even if it is, that doesn't mean that it's Ultrachrome either. Superconductors are common within Star Wars, being used canonically in communications and hyperdrives for example, and EGWT also states that it was a common practice to use "reflective[mirrorlike] hull coatings designed to deflect energy beams" (pg 74).
But it still is energy directed at one place, and it can still be evenly dissipated across the armor's entire surface equally. You talk about a turbolaser doing great amounts of damage, which it does, but you don't appear to understand how they work: "Energy weapons include lasers, turbolasers, and ion acnnons. Their beams carry high-energy particles that ineract with the target to cause explosive damage." (EGWT, pg 75). Which is what I've already discussed in my above post, and it backs me up as well. It's not only how much power a weapon delivers, it's how it delivers it.
The modularity is a tradeoff. Sure, it makes the vessel less structuarally strong, but it also lends it an advantage in terms of adaptability. In either case, that doesn't effect how many weapons my ships carry for example because of the modularity.
You haven't rebutted my latest points on that, which I take as a concession on your part or a lack of points which would defeat those that I've made, and which remain unchallenged.
Fair enough. If I see you on AIM, we can talk then; I prefer real-time conversations on such matters. If you do have an idea though, you can state it or PM it too me. And don't have anything in mind yet, except for with Kraken's portion, who I have to talk to.
