Hunters & Gatherers...
Posts: 2462
  • Posted On: Oct 18 2006 4:29pm
I think I have you on this one: the Redemption has a special stealth ship detection system (the SSDS) and the Heroic and Sinew have the Graviton if I'm not mistaken. We're going to be noticing that.
Yes, you likely are. My point was that the EMPIRE emerged from hyperspace and was firing before your sensors had detected it, not that you would not be able to detect it.

As well, how did the EMPIRE make that micro-jump? Kach and others have told me that a special system was needed to do that. And I don't see a system like that mounted on the vessel according to your ship's R&D.
There is no special system required to make a microjump. It is the same in nature as any other hyperspace jump. And ALL Imperial ships carry highly advanced computer cores capable of calculating complex microjumps in a matter of seconds - EMPIRE is no exception.

I'm not so convinced about the sunken shield generator principle as well; I will be researching that to see about its feasibility. If you have discussed this somewhere else here, show me.
I'll help you out - it's 100% fabrication. That said, my question for you is this: if sunken shield generators are infalliable, wouldn't everyone do it? Or is there a logical reason that a raised projector provides superior protection to a sunken one? That said, whether it's technically feasible is irrelevent, since the point of that bit was that the DERs are targetting a specific point in your shields in order to slag the generators. However, I think you would agree that to get a little (protected generators), you have to give up a little (a very specific, relatively minor, weakness).

It's important to remember that Ultrachrome is NOT a typical superconductor. From Canon, we know that a 0.5 * O.5 square meter piece of Ultrachrome does not melt or become brittle with a lightsaber being pressed against it, which is proportionally a lot more energy than any heavy turbolaser. As it is, Ultrachrome is already capable of withstanding high temperatures without being in its superconductor-like form, nevermind the heat-resistant alloy underneath.
That's a lot of assumption based on one CUSWE article. A superconductor will not work above a certain temperature, meaning you're relying on your ultrachrome alone for protection. It doesn't help your argument that your Seraph R&D thread is the second result doing a Google search.

However, an article on the lightsaber HERE mentions that ultrachrome was "used for ship armor hundreds of years before the Empire". Weapons were, of course, less powerful, and the implication (to me) is that ultrachrome was phased out for something better, which is the standard in armour today. Uses for vibroblades are quite different from expecting it to stop a heavy turbolaser blast, nevermind a bombardment of such. Further, we know that a turbolaser blasts is many times as powerful as a lightsaber, based on the inability of Jedi to deflect even laser canon blasts with a lightsaber (usually, I'm there are a few exceptions).

So, on the whole, I think there's a pretty good basis for expecting it to hold up less well than conventional armour.

Absolutely not. That not only contradicts my previous post, but is impossible as well. Juaire's are equipped with a special maneuvering system that allows the gunships to make very fast maneuvers that other ships usually can't match, and your CPECs have fixed weapons, mounted on a slow ship to begin with.
Which is totally irrelevent because you had no issue with them having been hit in the first place. This is simply a description of their damages, given their relatively weak hulls. Given how powerful the SH-F canons are, it is not unreasonable to expect that they would slag the front end of your Gunships, read: the forward facing weapons. That they conviently penetrated but only hit "non-vital" areas when you have two powerful, presumably delicate weapons systems housed in the nose, is iffy, at best.

Explain to me how you are targetting the A3 Nemesis-class Bombers, who are actually more stealthy than the S9. And DERs is not the correct answer; DERs are very commonplace sensors that the A3 has two ways of stopping, the first being its armor and the second being its sensor mask.
First off, your armour makes no mention of actually contributing to stealth abilities. In fact, the part of the CUSWE article you left out of the R&D implies otherwise:

Although this might have been a boon to smugglers and other criminals, the weight of enough neuranium to protect a hidden item or to line a cargo hold would have been prohibitively heavy.
So it blocks sensors from penetrating, meaning I couldn't read energy readings from inside the ship, perhaps. But it still allows signals to be bounced back.

Nutorium, on the other hand, is implied to be a stealth armour. I can tell you straight up if someone tried to make it up it would be denied on the basis that it does not explain itself at all. It was invented by West End Games, who have a habit of being full of shit. Things published by WEG are also, generally, not taken as canon. So I'm not sure what to do with that. In discussing the R&D in and of itself, I would say that Nutorium doesn't fly... unless you can tell me how it defeats sensors?

Finally, the Vanish 2, and this is simple.

The CPEC carries an array of sensors to track smugglers. This includes bounce back sensors, which literally operate line sonar. The Vanish cannot disrupt them because the sensors do not carry information, they simply go out and bounce back, and paint a 3D picture of space. If something blocks them, they see it.

Add to this that I've been working on calibrating the CPEC's sensors to better detect you, and that you had no problem with that earlier on. Also note that I do not claim to have perfect targetting information, but my pilots are good, and there are lots of targets out there.

Unfortunately for you, I've already had KDI stealth fighters go up against a Curiassier and its already been rped on how effective the Curiassier's defences are against point-blank space bomb attacks by the starfighters. First off, they were launched at point-blank range, which means there is little to no-time for the Cruiser's defences to pick them off. Second, the bombs are surprisingly also stealthed, which doesn't help targetting matters at all.

Moreover, according to the previous RP(with Telan) of the clash between these two units, in "Tidings of War", it takes 160 space bombs to bring down the entire shields for that area, which would allow 8 space bombs to hit an unshielded hull. Recall that a space bomb is equal to 4 regular concussion missiles, and you've just had the equivalent of 32 concussion missiles hit against an unshielded hull. That's going to do a fair amount of damage if it doesn't break the spine at all.
Unfortunately for you, you should reread my post. My TIEs intercepted your bombers before they fired. Thus, formations were disrupted, some bombers were destroyed, etc. etc. etc. This means that while a large number of bombs were launched, there was less coordination than there would have been otherwise. Further, because space bombs are exceptionally slow compared to torpedoes or missiles, it is unsurprising that some would be taken down by my fighters. And while canon shows us that a coordinated bombing run by starfighters can be effective, an uncoordinated attack is not nearly so powerful. Which is not to say the ship would be undamaged. Shields have no doubt failed across the board where it was struck.

But the reinforced hull in that area took the few missiles that made it through.

Brittle hull comment aside (it's dealt with above), those shots from the Cavaliers are going to do some serious damage to the spine of the Curaisseur. Because many ships don't use RU values anymore, most projectile weapons don't use RU damage ratings anymore either. BUt if it is assumed that the KDI railguns are proportional in damage when compared to the the weapon used on the Intimidator-class Cruiser, and that each railgun fired only shots, that's literally 3150 RU of damage. That should be more than enough damage to destroy a ship's spine, especially when combined with Armor-piercing Starflares equipped with explosive warheads.
That means that in order to target the Heavy Cruisers (stated as being in the back of the formation), you've had to enter firing range and pass by my heavy ships.

In which case they would take significant damage, since all of the CPEF, CPEC, and Heavy Cruisers carry significantly heavy weapons. And with the exception of SH-F canons, all would be capable of targetting your capital ships on their approach.

I'll edit that in accordingly.

That said, you've managed to destroy a significantly sized capital ship in one post? I'll keep that precident in mind.

I'm somewhat surprised that you managed to confuse which version of the EMPIRE ship you're using in a single post. The initial attack is with a SOb, which is the heavy weapons version. But later on in the same post, it is using a gravity-well projector, which is only found on the SOa model according to the EMPIRE Project R&D document. Which ship is it? And in either case, some editting will have to be done to account for this.
You'll note that the EMPIRE SOb, in fact, has very little mention of what its armed with. It is described simply as "moderate to heavy". That could well include a gravity well generator. Given the ship's nature, it would be expected, and it was designed to carry a grav well. That said, it is not explicitly mentioned, so if you want to cry foul, I'll edit accordingly.

*shrug*
Posts: 1200
  • Posted On: Oct 18 2006 5:02pm
Just an observation since "canon" is being thrown around alot...

arrgh... Demo beat me to it.


Ultrachrome was a metal used as starship armor around the time of the Great Sith War. Silver and superconductive, it reflected blaster and slugthrower weaponry, could not be cut by a lightsaber, and was immune to metal-eating fungi.

Kar Vastor crafted his Akk Guard vibroshields out of ultrachrome.

Quote taken from Wookiepedia


From Canon, we also know that Ultrachrome was used 3500-4000 years ago.


We can infer then that there may be some sort of reason why it's not used now (in canon). This armor was effective against weaponry of 4000 years past. It is also reasonable to assume that lightsaber construction and weaponry in general have improved since then is it not?


I am reminded of an arguement regarding the effectiveness of thousand-year-old tech against present technology when TNO's General Chau Ming attacked Jan Dodonna/ORS(?) with Sith Battlecruisers. While the battlecruisers may have been "the shit" back during the Sith Wars, they were unfortunately cut to ribbons and the TNO attack repulsed. This was because all members of TRF pretty much agreed that thousands of years old technology would not do much good against current technology. However, I am pretty sure that ultrachrome is still immune to metal-eating fungi.

Now, (using the example of the poor TNO General Chau Ming) if we further assume that these Sith Battlecruisers were armored with the armor of their day such as ultrachrome (a reasonable assumption since this was armor that could contend with the lightsabers of their day and there was a Sith War going on after all), then we come to the results that while ultrachrome may have been hot stuff back in the day, it is easily cut to ribbons by present day standard weaponry.
Posts: 2453
  • Posted On: Oct 18 2006 6:29pm
I can't say I remember the argument about the effectiveness of thousand-year old technology. Though given the amount of arguments that happened in that war, its not surprising I can't remember all of them.

As I recall Chau may have forgotten to raise his shields in that battle, then was fighting 4 ships of equal size and also fighting mines. And was all the while (or for most of the time) ignoring my attacks to attack the shipyards.

Upon review of the IC thread, there were mentions about the ships being outdated ICly and OOCly. However the fact that the Sith Battlecruisers simply concentrated on attacking the shipyards and mines, for the most part ignoring my Birds of Prey hitting them from behind, was the main reason why his ships were "cut to ribbons". Although by "cut to ribbons" it was a fairly long fight and they damaged to destroy 1 shipyard and damage a second.
Posts: 1200
  • Posted On: Oct 18 2006 9:30pm
Jan: I am not sure about the shield thing but I do remember there being a bit about shields not being mentioned in a Mk II BoP R&D which was pretty funny (not for Logan).

As for the Sith cruisers attacking the SY's... After it was determined the BoP's would cut them to ribbons in a stand up fight, my priorities changed from saving my outdated imaginary ships to destroying your imaginary shipyard. I ran your gauntlet and If I could have rammed everything into your yards I would have. ;)

Besides, we had a cap at the time and needed the meterage... heh heh
Posts: 1865
  • Posted On: Oct 18 2006 10:31pm
Yes, you likely are. My point was that the EMPIRE emerged from hyperspace and was firing before your sensors had detected it, not that you would not be able to detect it.


How is that possible though? Your ship jumped behind mine from a straight-on trajectory. Wouldn't it need time to turn?

There is no special system required to make a microjump. It is the same in nature as any other hyperspace jump. And ALL Imperial ships carry highly advanced computer cores capable of calculating complex microjumps in a matter of seconds - EMPIRE is no exception.


I don't believe that is the case, otherwise I question why both Kach and Kraken would include a special computer on their R&Ds to make the said micro-jump. Moreover, why would other factions have the same thing; it's not only the Coalition and TNO, but BDE and VC as well.

I'll help you out - it's 100% fabrication. That said, my question for you is this: if sunken shield generators are infalliable, wouldn't everyone do it? Or is there a logical reason that a raised projector provides superior protection to a sunken one? That said, whether it's technically feasible is irrelevent, since the point of that bit was that the DERs are targetting a specific point in your shields in order to slag the generators. However, I think you would agree that to get a little (protected generators), you have to give up a little (a very specific, relatively minor, weakness).


Do you? Many of your R&Ds have strengths but no weaknesses, such as the EMPIRE project. It's not a point worth arguing over though.

That's a lot of assumption based on one CUSWE article. A superconductor will not work above a certain temperature, meaning you're relying on your ultrachrome alone for protection. It doesn't help your argument that your Seraph R&D thread is the second result doing a Google search.


Actually, no, because Ultrachrome isn’t always a superconductor: it has to be attached to a power source in order for it to become one, but moreover, it has a high amount of heat resistant even while it is not a superconductor. It is a very obscure technology, which it isn't seen. It's based on the novel "Shatterpoint" where Ultrachrome is introduced. It's important to note that Windu says(actually thinks) that the material used on the vibro-shields is the old equivalent within the book itself, but I don't think that affects this case; As Om has already posted, Wookiepedia also has it's page on Ultrachrome.

It has been brought up that because

Uses for vibroblades are quite different from expecting it to stop a heavy turbolaser blast, nevermind a bombardment of such. Further, we know that a turbolaser blasts is many times as powerful as a lightsaber, based on the inability of Jedi to deflect even laser canon blasts with a lightsaber (usually, I'm there are a few exceptions).


But then you've taken it out of comparative size context as well. That's like saying stormtrooper armor won't stop a turbolaser bolt or that a Kelvar vest won’t protect a soldier from a Tank’s cannon; well no really: perhaps there is a size difference between the weapon and the defence. As it is Ultrachrome, according to Wookiepedia and Kaine, was designed for protection against other capital ships to begin with.

It has been proposed that because Ultrachrome is an old technology, and has not been commonly used on ships, that something else better was found and used instead. That would be reasonable if something better indeed was found. As it is, I don’t see any other armor that can not only absorb energy, but also can reflect it apparently now as well.

The point that weapons have improved since then has brought up, and they have. But this in no way effects the armor’s performance based on the canonical evidence from “Shatterpoint”. It was just as capable of absorbing the energy from modern blasters as it was thousands of years ago. I see no reason why this should be any different if things are scaled up to capital ship wise.

As well, simply because a technology has ceased to be used does not make it obsolete. A good case and point being gravity-well projectors. Grav-well projectors were used thousands of years ago on the Leviathan-class Interdictor to prohibit hyperspace. And then the technology was somehow lost, despite the hundreds of Leviathans turned out by both the Republic and the Sith. Does that mean that gravity-well projectors would be ineffective during that time between the Leviathan and their rediscovery by the Galactic Empire simply because they were not in use? Of course not. In all likely-hood, ultrachrome suffered a similar fate until its own rediscovery by KDI.


Which is totally irrelevent because you had no issue with them having been hit in the first place. This is simply a description of their damages, given their relatively weak hulls. Given how powerful the SH-F canons are, it is not unreasonable to expect that they would slag the front end of your Gunships, read: the forward facing weapons. That they conviently penetrated but only hit "non-vital" areas when you have two powerful, presumably delicate weapons systems housed in the nose, is iffy, at best.


No, because I already have a specific description of what damage occured to my vessels, which does not include weapon's damage. Nor are the hulls weak at all, especially against energy weapons. In fact, the hulls of the Juaire-class are more durable than those of some similarly-sized Imperial vessels, such as the Imperial Customs Corvette or the Deepspace-class Sensor ship among many others.

Is iffy at best? I find it iffy that somehow with the strength of two heavy turbolasers that they even managed to not only pierce the shields, but would even have the power to overide three layers of heat and energy restitant materials. Moreover, I do not even see any references in your post to my vessels doing any damage to some of yours; not even a scratch.

First off, your armour makes no mention of actually contributing to stealth abilities. In fact, the part of the CUSWE article you left out of the R&D implies otherwise:Although this might have been a boon to smugglers and other criminals, the weight of enough neuranium to protect a hidden item or to line a cargo hold would have been prohibitively heavy.


I'm going to point out that Neuranium is only part of the armor, and is in a significant minority in composition(>7%) of the rest of the armor, which is made of Nutorium and special paints, "a specialized hull plating material that was developed to defeat sensors systems, allowing a ship to move about with relative stealth (CUSWE)". The fact that Neuranium does affect the ship is shown in the statistics as well: despite most of the fighter being engines and stealth systems, ships that have smaller (proportionally) engines are faster and more maneuverable.

So it blocks sensors from penetrating, meaning I couldn't read energy readings from inside the ship, perhaps. But it still allows signals to be bounced back.


Not really. Neuranium warps part of the space-time fabric; just like an Imperial Cloaking Device.

Nutorium, on the other hand, is implied to be a stealth armour. I can tell you straight up if someone tried to make it up it would be denied on the basis that it does not explain itself at all. It was invented by West End Games, who have a habit of being full of shit. Things published by WEG are also, generally, not taken as canon. So I'm not sure what to do with that. In discussing the R&D in and of itself, I would say that. Nutorium doesn't fly... unless you can tell me how it defeats sensors?


If it's not accepted as Canon, why is it in the CUSWE? Moreover, Nutorium is supposedly like modern day stealth armor used on US stealth fighters. And if I am suppose to tell you how it works, perhaps you can explain to me how your cloaking shield works as well...

The CPEC carries an array of sensors to track smugglers. This includes bounce back sensors, which literally operate line sonar. The Vanish cannot disrupt them because the sensors do not carry information, they simply go out and bounce back, and paint a 3D picture of space. If something blocks them, they see it.


I don't see that listed anywhere under the CPEC's tactical sensor suite. Moreover, how does sonar work in space? There's nothing to carry the sound waves in a vacuum. If you're not using sound waves, what are sending instead?

Add to this that I've been working on calibrating the CPEC's sensors to better detect you, and that you had no problem with that earlier on. Also note that I do not claim to have perfect targetting information, but my pilots are good, and there are lots of targets out there.


Supposing that your CPEC does have the information, doesn't mean that your pilots have that information: your communications are being jammed by the Sinew.

Unfortunately for you, you should reread my post. My TIEs intercepted your bombers before they fired. Thus, formations were disrupted, some bombers were destroyed, etc. etc. etc. This means that while a large number of bombs were launched, there was less coordination than there would have been otherwise.


Supposing that your fighters could see them at all, it would take a lot to destroy one of them to begin, considering that they're moving at least 120 MGLT if not 175 and that they have a pretty high defence rating.

Further, because space bombs are exceptionally slow compared to torpedoes or missiles, it is unsurprising that some would be taken down by my fighters. And while canon shows us that a coordinated bombing run by starfighters can be effective, an uncoordinated attack is not nearly so powerful. Which is not to say the ship would be undamaged. Shields have no doubt failed across the board where it was struck.


You're going to have your interceptors intercept stealth bombs at point-blank range? Aside from how they're going to detect them, how are they going to react quickly enough to target them as well.

That means that in order to target the Heavy Cruisers (stated as being in the back of the formation), you've had to enter firing range and pass by my heavy ships.

In which case they would take significant damage, since all of the CPEF, CPEC, and Heavy Cruisers carry significantly heavy weapons. And with the exception of SH-F canons, all would be capable of targetting your capital ships on their approach.


I already explained that they made a flanking movement, thereby avoiding your ships and the thick of the battle. I don't think any of your weapons (on the Curaisseurs) would be able to track them because of the Magnetorian sweeps being aimed at the Curaisseurs, which jam enemy weapons and hamper their tracking movements.



I'll edit that in accordingly.

That said, you've managed to destroy a significantly sized capital ship in one post? I'll keep that precident in mind.


Where did I destroy a capital ship in one post? Even if I manage to break the spines of the Curaisseurs doesn't mean that they're dead and incapable of fighting, they are. But they have their lost propulsion and ability to move.

You'll note that the EMPIRE SOb, in fact, has very little mention of what its armed with. It is described simply as "moderate to heavy". That could well include a gravity well generator. Given the ship's nature, it would be expected, and it was designed to carry a grav well. That said, it is not explicitly mentioned, so if you want to cry foul, I'll edit accordingly.


I'm going to cry foul actually, because not only is it not mentioned as having it within the R&D, but I don't see any mention of the SOb having interdictor abilities within the Rp thread. Show me if I'm wrong.

*shrug*
Posts: 2453
  • Posted On: Oct 18 2006 10:33pm
After re-reading the thread I've found out I never pressed the shield issue there, I simply mentioned it. But then I didn't let the issue slide during the Mon Cal attack. But if you say that the out-dated thing happened, I believe you. Though I'll repeat that it wasn't an immediate "they are cut to ribbons I win!" thing, it was a "their shields were slowly brought down and then I destroyed them by targetting a notoriously weak area on many ships" thing. Therefore in this thread it shouldn't be a "Corise's ships are magically super weak because they have old armour". Though that does not mean that Corise won't choose to fight the idea that his armor is weak, I'm just not doing it because I don't know enough about the armor and such to properly argue it.

And its Jan DONDANA, not DODONNA. I'm different (and also didn't know how to spell it when I made the character), but because I screwed it up I've never said I was the same guy or related to him.

EDIT: Well corise did argue the point. So yeah, if he loses the argument, it doesn't necessarily meant that his ships are magically super weak as that was not how it was RPed out in the battle over Farquak.
Posts: 602
  • Posted On: Oct 18 2006 11:08pm
But then you've taken it out of comparative size context as well. That's like saying stormtrooper armor won't stop a turbolaser bolt or that a Kelvar vest won’t protect a soldier from a Tank’s cannon; well no really: perhaps there is a size difference between the weapon and the defence. As it is Ultrachrome, according to Wookiepedia and Kaine, was designed for protection against other capital ships to begin with.


I'll only address this one issue here. Corise, you need to read Shatterpoint again. So, apparently, do the writers of Wookieepedia. According to the book, ultrachrome was not used on capital ships nor as protection from capital ships. It was used on starfighters because shield generators were too bulky for small craft, and it was intended to stop the low-powered lasers carried on other starfighters, not turbolaser blasts from capital ships.

From Shatterpoint, pg. 266: "The entire shield is always the same temperature throughout. Even the energy of a lightsaber is instantly conducted away. Hold a blade against it long enough and the whole thing will melt, but it cannot be cut. Not by an energy blade."

Page 267: "Thousands of years ago - before the Sith War - when shield generators were so massive that only the largest capital ships could carry them, smaller starships were armored with a mirrorlike superconducting allow, which was sufficient to resist the low-fire-rate laser cannons of the day."

Pardon me - they were on capital ships, but only for low-fire-rate laser cannons, not heavy turbolaser cannons or rapid-fire weapons. So Demos is right - your ultrachrome would be pretty much useless against heavy weapons.
Posts: 1865
  • Posted On: Oct 18 2006 11:49pm
I don't remember those passages, and it's one of the books I didn't bring with me to college. I'll have my parents mail it to me probably to verify that.

I do know that there is a reference that Kas Vastor took it from it from the crashed Jedi ship that brought his ancestors to Haruun Kal. But I don't think that CUSWE is wrong on this; it would be incredibly rare if it was. Wookiepedia sounds a little off, since I don't remember the armor being capable of reflecting slugs or laser bolts, although that would be nice.
Posts: 936
  • Posted On: Oct 18 2006 11:56pm
CUSWE's paragraphs are short, and many critical details are left out. That's why I never bother with using it, normally. Wikipedia's better in nearly every situation.
Posts: 2462
  • Posted On: Oct 18 2006 11:57pm
Corise Lucerne
How is that possible though? Your ship jumped behind mine from a straight-on trajectory. Wouldn't it need time to turn?
Do you think ships revert to realspace every time they have to make a minor course correction? The hyperspace route was plotted for a specific arrival (more or less by going around your fleet and coming back on a proper approach angle), and was then yanked from hyperspace by my own mines - which I knew the location of.

I don't believe that is the case, otherwise I question why both Kach and Kraken would include a special computer on their R&Ds to make the said micro-jump. Moreover, why would other factions have the same thing; it's not only the Coalition and TNO, but BDE and VC as well.
Again,
ALL Imperial ships carry highly advanced computer cores capable of calculating complex microjumps in a matter of seconds - EMPIRE is no exception.
This is not conjecture, this is based in our R&Ds. I suggest you read over some of them. :)

Do you? Many of your R&Ds have strengths but no weaknesses, such as the EMPIRE project. It's not a point worth arguing over though.
I'm not going to point out the weak points in my own R&Ds for you, but suffice to say, they are there. Otherwise the EMPIRE project would have garnered responses reflecting their supposed uberness. Your R&Ds, on the other hand, claim to be infalliable: they have better shields than everyone, they have better weapons, they are relatively stealthy, and on and on and on.

It has been proposed that because Ultrachrome is an old technology, and has not been commonly used on ships, that something else better was found and used instead. That would be reasonable if something better indeed was found. As it is, I don’t see any other armor that can not only absorb energy, but also can reflect it apparently now as well.
Do you know what a superconductor is? Because at this temperature, it cannot reflect energy. So we're back to ultrachrome as a simple armour layer. And yes, it follows logic that the reason its use was discontinued is because a better alternative was found.

The point that weapons have improved since then has brought up, and they have. But this in no way effects the armor’s performance based on the canonical evidence from “Shatterpoint”. It was just as capable of absorbing the energy from modern blasters as it was thousands of years ago. I see no reason why this should be any different if things are scaled up to capital ship wise.
But we're not in the Old Republic days. And there is enough canon evidence that shows that when the Empire came around, military weapons improved in scale and power by huge measures. So while ultrachrome might have been effective against the comparatively light lasers of the Clone Wars, it is not so effective against modern turbolasers.

As well, simply because a technology has ceased to be used does not make it obsolete. A good case and point being gravity-well projectors. Grav-well projectors were used thousands of years ago on the Leviathan-class Interdictor to prohibit hyperspace. And then the technology was somehow lost, despite the hundreds of Leviathans turned out by both the Republic and the Sith. Does that mean that gravity-well projectors would be ineffective during that time between the Leviathan and their rediscovery by the Galactic Empire simply because they were not in use? Of course not. In all likely-hood, ultrachrome suffered a similar fate until its own rediscovery by KDI.
There's quite a difference between losing a technology like a gravity well generator (a very complex machine), and losing armour. Armour is very basic - strap metal to ship. So your comparison really lacks any ground. Logically, it was discontinued because it was outdone by modern weapons, not because everyone collectively decided "hey's, let's NOT use this material for defence!".

No, because I already have a specific description of what damage occured to my vessels, which does not include weapon's damage. Nor are the hulls weak at all, especially against energy weapons. In fact, the hulls of the Juaire-class are more durable than those of some similarly-sized Imperial vessels, such as the Imperial Customs Corvette or the Deepspace-class Sensor ship among many others.
Okay, great. I'll write a very specific description of the damage to my fleet. And I'll say "oh, it pretty much did nothing".

No. You've accepted that fire penetrated shields and hit your ships. To say that it conviently missed anything important, when you have two weapons systems housed in the nose of your ship, is completely unrealistic. I attacked the front end of those ships for a reason, because that's where their weapons are.

But hey, maybe ALL those space bombs you launched missed the "vital" neck, right?

Is iffy at best? I find it iffy that somehow with the strength of two heavy turbolasers that they even managed to not only pierce the shields, but would even have the power to overide three layers of heat and energy restitant materials.
You accepted that the shots penetrated. Not only that, but you're grossly underestimating the power of the weapons in question, and forgetting the relative weakness of said armour.

Not to mention that they don't have to penetrate the armour to cause damage, because there have to be emitters of some description on the outside of the hull, and it could easily be these that have been damaged.

In short, the forward weapons of those ships are offline.

I'm going to point out that Neuranium is only part of the armor, and is in a significant minority in composition(>7%) of the rest of the armor, which is made of Nutorium and special paints, "a specialized hull plating material that was developed to defeat sensors systems, allowing a ship to move about with relative stealth (CUSWE)". The fact that Neuranium does affect the ship is shown in the statistics as well: despite most of the fighter being engines and stealth systems, ships that have smaller (proportionally) engines are faster and more maneuverable.
Not really. Neuranium warps part of the space-time fabric; just like an Imperial Cloaking Device.

If it's not accepted as Canon, why is it in the CUSWE? Moreover, Nutorium is supposedly like modern day stealth armor used on US stealth fighters. And if I am suppose to tell you how it works, perhaps you can explain to me how your cloaking shield works as well...
If you're going to design a stealthship, yes, I would expect you to be able to give me some idea of how it works. I can tell you that the designers of the Shroud could tell you exactly how it worked, and that was the big reason it ever got approved. I don't ask for a technical readout, but it sounds as though you found something on CUSWE and thought "hey, this will make my ship infalliable!" In fact, I know this is what happened because it's what a lot of your techs depend on. I know this is what happened because I tried it once. As for CUSWE and canon... first off, Completely Unofficial. Secondly, what I said is that game stuff is not taken as canon at TRF. Which is where we are.

As for how an Imperial cloaking device works? It absorbs sensor signals by warping space. On TRF, a traditional Imperial cloaking device is useless because everyone is always thinking "hey, they might have cloaked ships!!!" It worked in the EU because no one was ever expecting ships to be cloaked.

I don't see that listed anywhere under the CPEC's tactical sensor suite. Moreover, how does sonar work in space? There's nothing to carry the sound waves in a vacuum. If you're not using sound waves, what are sending instead?
I compared it to sonar in principle. I did not say that it used sound waves. But I don't see life support listed in your R&Ds... should I assume your ships don't have it? The TSS is designed to get a one up on smugglers. Note I did not say "hey, we can see them perfectly well!" I said that they have some information on your fighters, and with some callibration they were able to get targetting data.

Again, your R&Ds are not infalliable.

Supposing that your CPEC does have the information, doesn't mean that your pilots have that information: your communications are being jammed by the Sinew.

I'm not going to point out flaws in your own R&Ds to you, either, because you will quickly come out with a "Mark 55" version to correct it. Suffice to say, there is a flaw in the design.

Supposing that your fighters could see them at all, it would take a lot to destroy one of them to begin, considering that they're moving at least 120 MGLT if not 175 and that they have a pretty high defence rating.
So now your fighters are not only invisible, but faster, better armed, and better shielded than a TIE Interceptor?

You're going to have your interceptors intercept stealth bombs at point-blank range? Aside from how they're going to detect them, how are they going to react quickly enough to target them as well.

Space bombs are a) relatively large targets, b) very slow, and c) not at all stealth. And yes, you said space bombs in the RP.

I already explained that they made a flanking movement, thereby avoiding your ships and the thick of the battle. I don't think any of your weapons (on the Curaisseurs) would be able to track them because of the Magnetorian sweeps being aimed at the Curaisseurs, which jam enemy weapons and hamper their tracking movements.
According to what? Your R&D documents contain no details of them, nor does a Google search return any results. Furthermore, how do they do these things?

Where did I destroy a capital ship in one post? Even if I manage to break the spines of the Curaisseurs doesn't mean that they're dead and incapable of fighting, they are. But they have their lost propulsion and ability to move.

If you manage to break the spine, you know as well as I do that effectively puts them out of comission.

I'm going to cry foul actually, because not only is it not mentioned as having it within the R&D, but I don't see any mention of the SOb having interdictor abilities within the Rp thread. Show me if I'm wrong.

*shrug*
No, it doesn't. I'll have to add that for you in the Mark II version. And while it's a relatively minor issue, I reiterate my earlier comment.

Now, all of this leads me to one big thing:

A general complaint about Corise's R&Ds, and how he employs them.

1) Uberness.

This thread has thus far shown us that his bombers are (apparently) faster than starfighters, perfectly invisible, impossible to target, well shielded, and carry very heavy munitions.

This leads to a second point.

2) Expense

At the height of its canon power, the Empire decided against the use of the expensive TIE Defender because it cost to much to be practical. They were produced in limited numbers.

How does Kashan (or even the GC as a whole) manage to produce a fighter that, logically, will be many times as expensive to produce (and mantain, given all those extra systems) as a mainline fighter? As a specialty vessel I can see, but this is the standard Kashan fighter, and unless the rest of the GC is going without starfighters, I cannot see them producing them realistically as a mainline vessel.

3) Uberness, again

This time as applied to his capital ships. They are seemingly impervious to laser fire (although the usefullness of ultrachrome is debatable) and missile fire. Meanwhile, their own ships can not be targetted and carry guns that go right through enemy shields.

4) Mark Infinity

Somehow, despite only existing as a supposed "major power" for a few IC months, Kashan has managed to produce variants of nearly every vessel in its fleet. Mark III Seraph, Mark II Deathsaber, et al. I question how Kashan is able to not only continue to produce new ships, but at the same time be in a constant state of refitting, upgrading, and redesigning their older models. Again, feasible through the GC if the Coalition is not producing warships for itself...

5) Playability

In this thread, we see Corise claiming that his Gunships are undamaged by a ship twice their size directing very significant firepower against it. We see him claiming that his Cruisers cannot be targetted by the enemy fleet. We see him claiming that his fighters cannot be targetted, are faster than their opponents, and are heavily armed.

Simply put, in my humble opinion, the use of R&Ds as seen in this thread goes entirely against the spirit of the game. There is no story in this RP, there is simply "then my superior technology blocks your attack and destroys you". This is not an attempt to discredit the work Corise has obviously put into his R&Ds, but it is my opinion that they would never have been approved under the "old" system and that they are, simply put, noy fair vessels at all. And it is my understanding that because there is no approval process, this is the only way to address the issue.