A Lightspeed Fender Bender

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A Lightspeed Fender Bender

Posts: 602

1. As far as the rank goes, I was informed (by a member of the Force Counsel - well, actually two) that Skygge could be promoted to Knight at the end of Homecoming. That occurred.

2. I have never stated that the Sith are engaging in Battle Meditation, or that they will engage in Battle Meditation. Wes asked an Apprentice a question about whether he could engage in Battle Meditation, and the apprentice (who, by the way, is on his way to becoming a PC, if I ever get enough of a break from law school to write the threads I have planned, and even if I don't, has been mentioned in several threads as being Skygge's most powerful apprentice) said that he could. Whether he could or not is never mentioned - he claims that he can. Very different things.

What they Apprentices have done is engage in a Force meld, which has implied, if not direct, precedent in my threads - i.e., they have done this sort of thing before (not flying a ship, but Force melding). That allows one apprentice to draw on the strength of all the others.

So the discussion of Battle Meditation is moot until/if I actually use it, which I had never planned on doing. The entire point of that was/is that Yuagith (see aforementioned point about him soon rising to PC status) figures out that he can't do everything. His overconfidence causes problems with a lot of things.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention, Yuagith's failure will also have the effect of beginning to distance Wes a bit from the Sith, which will be necessary for future events.

3. Again regarding Skygge's rank, see the PM I sent you.

Beff Pike

Posts: 5711

So its a somantic issue then?

Force Meld/Sith Battle Meditation...

Regardless of the wording, I and others take exception to the idea of these NPC Apprentice characters (and for all your love and work, Yuagith could not be considered any more then a PC Apprentice at best given that he has not been granted ANY rank by the Force Council) using the Force as you have already detailed in your post.

Simply suggesting that because you didn't use the words disqualifies the actions you have posted is insufficent. The fact is that your Apprentice NPC's (and possibly one Apprentice PC) are using the force to detect objects through hyperspace (which Om has previously discussed as fairly ludacris) and they are using the force to share information with one another and likely members of the fleet...

What I think you should take in to account is that members in longer standing then yourself, members who have written force-based characters longer then Skygge has been around, have taken exception to your behavior regarding the force.

Whether or not anything is actually done about it, those concerns are there and may very well affect how Skygge and any subsequent force-type character you write is regarded in the future.

That, I think, is as important as, if not more so, then any 'rule' violation.

Omnae

Posts: 4195

Not all ships that run into others would blow up. I personally would like that to happen but in terms of fairness and reasonableness, I would probably endorse a sliding scale as well.

In the manner of a capital ship I would use the same brick wall analogy.

If you were moving fast enough to see your world around you as a blur and you hit a big brick wall, you'd probably die. That's like a ship hitting a planet.

What if you strike the side of half that brick wall? like a large space station?

What if you strike a quarter of the brick wall? like a capital class vessel?
I would say that in some instances you would die and others you'd be really really hurt.

What if you struck a rock? like a fighter? I would say that you would be hurt but not killed unless it was a "money-shot".

The smaller the shadow, the less chance (1) that the object would be hit at all and (2) the collision would be fatal or even noticeable by either object.

In my opinion, the smaller the object, the smaller the shadow. But, I suppose it also depends on the mass of the object.

...the fact that a ship approaching a system must exit hyperspace before it actually reaches its destination in order to slow down to normal speeds - even an accelleration compensater can't handle going from 186,000+ miles per second to 10 MGLT instantly. Imagine the chaos in such a situation!

All ships traveling at lightspeed exit hyperspace before reaching their destination. The reason they exit hyperspace is to obtain new navigational data of what's inside the system, not to slow down to normal speeds.

I know that is not why your fleet exited hyperspace outside of Coruscant system. How do I know this? Because you jumped back into lightspeed going into the system.

So my question then, would be, how far from the Cree Ar fleet did you come out of hyperspace to give yourself enough time to slow down?

I would imagine that 5 seconds after such deceleration from (how many times?) faster than the speed of light, when you started to fire your thousands of weapons, your ships would probably have slowed to about 186,000+ miles per second out-pacing or outrunning your own shots before reaching 10 MGLT in what? 60 seconds later? 30 seconds later?

In that case the Cree Ar would have seen you coming from the time you left the hyperspace speed of lightspeed + to when you slowed to 10 MGLT and would have had enough time to turn towards you and shoot you before your ships reached 10 MGLT.

Is that what would happen?

Therefore, I would say that the machinery involved in slowing a ship from lightspeed works quite well.

Regarding the slave circuit, the jury-rig was done by certified technicians from the hidden shipyards at Thoraza (I did mention that, though not exactly where they were from). I'll address that in my next post as well.

What I am saying here, is....either the slave circuit was put in well and therefore difficult to remove or it's not. I was willing to believe slave circuiting your fleet would be somewhat time consuming. But then you saying, "Well, we'll just have it all disabled in my next post" made me think, well how well put together is this thing?

It either is easy to put in and remove or hard to put in and hard to remove (without damaging stuff).

As I understand it, if a ship is wired for slave circuitry, whoever has the signal can control it by remote. Now you can turn off the signal which will free the ship from remote control until the signal is turned on or you can remove the slave circuitry.

I guess it really depends on how you play it. If it's easy for you, it will be easy for others. If it's hard for you, then you can expect it to be hard for others.

One example of the Sith not controlling the tactics is Thrawn and C'baoth. Yes, I know C'baoth was insane and that Thrawn had ysalimari.

C'baoth was a Dark Jedi. Not Sith. Therefore you cannot really say he was using the "Sith" Technique.

But Skygge has been reshaping the Sith to be team players over the past year - not backstabbing. She's integrating some Jedi training into the Sith training as well. And the Sith are about spent after the hyperspace jump - all but Yuagith - and aren't going to be controlling much of anything anytime soon (again, next post).

That's all well and good regarding Skygge's training. But the battle-meditation techniques your Sith were asked about were Sith techniques. Not Jedi or whatnot techniques. You know? So, it stands to reason, if you did end up trying to perform the Battle Meditation, it would be the Sith technique.

It won't be the absolute disaster you indicated, but he will lose something like a fourth of his fleet.

That's about what I expected.

And yet the day is not over.

:dead

Wes Vos

Posts: 602

Omnae

All ships traveling at lightspeed exit hyperspace before reaching their destination. The reason they exit hyperspace is to obtain new navigational data of what's inside the system, not to slow down to normal speeds.

I know that is not why your fleet exited hyperspace outside of Coruscant system. How do I know this? Because you jumped back into lightspeed going into the system.

So my question then, would be, how far from the Cree Ar fleet did you come out of hyperspace to give yourself enough time to slow down?

I would imagine that 5 seconds after such deceleration from (how many times?) faster than the speed of light, when you started to fire your thousands of weapons, your ships would probably have slowed to about 186,000+ miles per second out-pacing or outrunning your own shots before reaching 10 MGLT in what? 60 seconds later? 30 seconds later?

In that case the Cree Ar would have seen you coming from the time you left the hyperspace speed of lightspeed + to when you slowed to 10 MGLT and would have had enough time to turn towards you and shoot you before your ships reached 10 MGLT.

Is that what would happen?

Therefore, I would say that the machinery involved in slowing a ship from lightspeed works quite well.

You misunderstand. The point of having a fleet outside the planetary gravity well is that a ship must exit to get navigational data, true, but also that it exits hyperspace before it reaches its destination to enable it to slow down. For example, the SS fleet would have jumped to hyperspace, then exited well before reaching the Cree'Ar fleet in order to be at cruising speed by the time we got there - that is a function of the hyperdrive. By having a fleet outside the gravity well, you force the attacking fleet to engage you before they get to the planet or risk running into your fleet in realspace while they're still slowing down.

Regarding Battle Meditation, just a clarification for you and Beff, since what was happening seems misunderstood as well.

1) The Sith in question were not using any form of Battle Meditation. They were, in essence, doing the same thing that the Jedi Apprentices did to defeat Exar Kun or, in Darksaber, what they did to protect Yavin from the Star Destroyers. And this use of that meld is nothing so complex as either of those - they are simply combining their power to sense anomalies in hyperspace. As my next post will show (when I have a chance to get it up), it did NOT work as well as expected.

2) When Wes asks about the Sith technique of Battle Meditation, you have to remember that he is asking about it from the perspective of Wes, who is not a Force user and has little knowledge of the Force at all. He, of course, has heard about what C'baoth did, and he knows that such a thing as Battle Meditation exists. From his perspective, the Jedi and Sith have this strange power that they use, called the Force. If there is a difference between Light Side powers and Dark Side powers, he doesn't know it. Yuagith's answer is also from Yuagith's perspective.

As a general note about my writing, and my reading for that matter, I have always considered dialogue to be from that person/character's perspective. The narrative, on the other hand, is neutral and as close to objective as I can make it, unless context makes it clear that it is from a character or organization's perspective (e.g., "what was left of their fleet" is clearly a perspective, since it considers only what is directly in front of the SS fleet).

Omnae

Posts: 4195

For example, the SS fleet would have jumped to hyperspace, then exited well before reaching the Cree'Ar fleet in order to be at cruising speed by the time we got there

So, you are saying that all that took 5 seconds?

Within five seconds of their reversion to realspace, every gunner on an SS ship who had an opening to fire did so. Thousands and tens of thousands of turbolaser bolts slammed into Cree'Ar vessels

that is a function of the hyperdrive

I thought it was to go faster than light.

But I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I seem to be misunderstanding quite a lot these days.

Beff Pike

Posts: 5711

I would agree that there do seem to be quite a lot of misunderstandings...

... Wes.

Wes Vos

Posts: 602

No no no no no.

I quote from the online article on Hyperspace which I have been using as a basis for this discussion:

The reentry process looks exactly like the inverse of the jump to lightspeed. The hyperspace tunnel is replaced by indefinitely-long starlines, which shorten and appear to end with the points of the normal realspace starfield. The ship undergoes rapid sublight deceleration to match the rest frame of the destination system. It is not clear whether this deceleration is accomplished by the normal sublight drives or some other system linked to the hyperdrive. In any case a failure to decelerate would have extremely unpleasant effects: the ship would continue onwards at extremely high sublight velocity, subject to great time dilation, and there might be very little time for the crew to react before crashing into something.

For such deceleration to occur, the ship would have to drop out of hyperspace some distance from the actual "exit" point. I consider that time part of "reversion." However, if they crash into something during this time, under either of our theories, it's bad news. That's why a defense fleet outside they planet's gravity well is adventageous.

As for my firing, that was five seconds after return to normal cruising speed - five seconds is plenty of time to acquire a target and fire.

Beff Pike

Posts: 5711

I personally don't believe that there has to be any residual momentum when exiting hyperspace.

Consider the syntax; we describe the event as an "exit" or a "jump" and physics would seem to agree (save for those theoretical particles which are believed to move faster then light and thus backwards through what we percieve as time). Consider swimming, one is either in the water or out.

Logically if we were to agree that a ship maintains momentum equal to its departure from light speed then that would imply, at least, a deceleration from from the speed of light which would require considerable counter thrust, powerful inertial compensators and so forth.

The fact that we see ships exit hyperspace with any relative motion at all simply implies to me an intention on the part of that ships operators to engage sub-light propulsion upon reversion. As hyperspace is commonly agreed upon as being, unlike for example Warp Drive, an alternate 'dimension' in which FTL travel is possible there is no reason to expect that the expulsion of an object from that 'folded' space would inherit residual momentum.

I believe that it is reguarly agreed on that hyperspace and 'real' space are not one in the same (again, unlike Warp Drive).

So, if an object does maintain momentum upon exiting hyperspace we need to determine how that factor is calculated and is it affected by variables such as mass, gravity and so on.

I think that the simplest way to resolve this debate, as with every other area we have discussed thus far, is for Wes to stop replying with his own views which in turn will cause the rest of the community to likewise abate. Thus; Wes could focus on actually posting something In Character rather then this ongoing triest in which we discuss the pointless.

Beff Pike

Posts: 5711

For such deceleration to occur, the ship would have to drop out of hyperspace some distance from the actual "exit" point. I consider that time part of "reversion."

That's a good point, too.

Is reversion an instant event or does it simply appear instant given our frame of reference?

Kach Thorton

Posts: 936

Look at the films. There is some post-reversion deacceleration, but the distance it takes place over is measurable in just a few kilometers, not dozens of kilometers or hundreds.

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