You're basically asking me to retard my shield technology, ignore my numbers advantage, allow you to retract that by your own words you are in a tactically inferior position to instead give you positional superiority, ignore my own tech (AGAIN), and... what else? Would you like me to de-evolve my species so that you're fighting against sea monkeys as well? Should I just have them abandon their controls and begin licking the deck plates?

Ahnk Rashanagok

You're basically asking me to retard my shield technology, ignore my numbers advantage, allow you to retract that by your own words you are in a tactically inferior position to instead give you positional superiority, ignore my own tech (AGAIN), and... what else? Would you like me to de-evolve my species so that you're fighting against sea monkeys as well? Should I just have them abandon their controls and begin licking the deck plates?

1. No, I'm not asking anything of the sort. I'm asking for reasonableness. I'm willing to say that you have maybe four times the force the Imperials do. A seven-to-one advantage is illogical, all things considered. Kach came in with half the Borderland protectorate fleet, which is massive. Park brought a large part of the Mid-Rim Protectorate Fleet, which is also massive. I brough half the SS fleet, which is not massive, but it's still a sizeable chunk of ships. Plus there are the remaining Coruscant defenses.

Considering the sizes of our respective factions (at least 2-1 favoring the Imperials) and the amount of work put into each over the past four or five years (which is something like 40-50 threads to ZERO for the Cree'Ar), I would imagine that the Imperials have quite a large fllet compared to the Cree'Ar. Yes, we've lost ships to the various wars and battles, but those were quickly replaced, considering we own/owned: Bilbringi, Yaga Minor, Kuat, Sluis Van, Corellia, In'chion (a newer shipyard world, albeit, but it is Imperial), and several others. Given that, I would imagine about a 4-1 ratio would be about right.

And, again, Wes is speaking from his perspective about the fleet directly in front of him. Or did you miss that part?

2. As for your shields, like I said, they can't be all powerful, or the Cree'Ar simply win every time. This is a problem, and if it was overlooked earlier, then it does need to be addressed now. Part of the problem may be that I have no idea what your shields actually do - as others can attest, I read your R&Ds and had no idea what they even said, much less what they meant. They gave me a headache. I had to ask other people what exactly they did - hence my PM conversations with Omnae, since you weren't around.

3. As for retracting anything, I NEVER claimed that I came around the planet or that I was anywhere close to the planet. If you want, I can pull up the IM conversations with Kach regarding this - the entire point of me hypering in was to get behind your fleet. These conversations took place long before my post was up - even before Kach's went up. I simply assumed that any logical, reasonable person would be able to figure out that (1) I'm not stupid, and neither is Wes IC, and I wouldn't put myself in a tactically inferior position on purpose, and (2) the context of my post and the posts before it indicated a surprise attack on your rear.

4. And yes, de-evolving your species would be nice. But I'm not asking for that. I am asking for reasonableness in the way your tech is used. To say, "My shields stop everything, so I win," is childish and does not allow for fair play or a good experience for all involved, which, I believe, is the entire point of this board.

I have recieved zero PMs from any of you, so don't say "you haven't been around". Just because you haven't asked doesn't mean I've been refusing to tell.

You can say what you want about active threads, but the Cree'Ar have had characters (Zeratul and Kal Shora) which both predate the creation of this board. We were establishing our forces while TNO was at war with the New Republic, and over the course of the many, many wars in character you have fought, our only losses have been... well, actually, we have recorded no losses in over seven years as a faction. In terms of our growth, just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't there.

As for your actual issues I find so much about what you claim to be absurd and rediculous I believe I'll simply ask Omnae to remove the wax from your ears. I just recieved this message on AIM

Wes is like a retarded mule, so good luck with that.

and I really have to say, you're living up to your (completely negative) reputation.

So I should accept that you dictate where my ships are and that nothing I do can hurt your ships? Or else I'm a retarded mule? That's nice. Very nice. So I spend four years buiding up the SS fleet, capturing planets so I can justify its growth, and you can just fiat into existence a fleet so large that taking Coruscant is just a walk in the park for them?

Somehow I just find that hard to swallow.

And no, I didn't PM you. I PMed Omnae, who was the apparent leader of the Cree'Ar since I saw you on here rarely if ever, and who was writing for the Cree'Ar in Cataclysm. I wanted to get involved in the thread right away, and I didn't want to have to wait for what could potentially be weeks for a reply.

Well, you're sitting here crying "This is unfair! I don't know anything about your stuff! I don't get it! Why do you have this? Why does this do this?"

And never, once, not ever did you bother to ASK ME. I find THAT insulting.

Furthermore, you're dictating that I am retarded to allow you to jump directly behind me. Also, you cannot find anywhere in my post where I placed your forces on any kind of vector behind me. Do you know what else you can't find? The words overshoot or overshot, or any derivitive thereof, in the posts you made in Cataclysm. Not only that, but your post doesn't mention you being behind my fleet whatsoever; did it, I would dispute it, but since it doesn't, at all, you have no real grounds to dispute it either.

The 7-1 advantage was at the beginning the thread. While you have brought reinforcements to the bear so have I, and I ambushed you. By your own characters posts, you are losing ships... and hell, you're firing on your own fucking vessels at this point, and yet, YOU STILL CLAIM TO BE WINNING. To assume you guys have a numbers advantage is fallacy; it's just not really even possible.

Again, you like to assume a lot, and maybe most people don't mind, but, yeah, I've spoken to absolutely no one who doesn't think you're just being a jackass here. IM logs with Kach Thorton notwithstanding, your own in character posts dispute what you claim OOC regarding your fleets position and everything else is even less tangible.

You can say what you want about being unreasonable and me being unfair, but you had the audacity to come into this thread and say "I just want a compromise that works for both sides, so admit that your shields don't work, that your interdictors don't work, that your communication jamming doesn't work, that our fleet jumped in directly behind you, and we've done massive damage to your fleet before they could react" is beyond insane. I really think you and Vonta would have made a great team.

Perhaps we misunderstand each other. I'm arguing a 4-1 superiority in favor of the Cree'Ar, not the Empire. That means you have 4x the ships we do. I just think 7-1 is a bit more than is reasonable. But, again, I'm willing to concede that, as it has no bearing on my post.

I still don't concede that my ships are in between you and the planet. I didn't overshoot - that's why I didn't mention it. Had I overshot, I would have said, "Wes's fleet overshot the exit zone and crashed into Coruscant." I didn't do that, so I didn't write that. What I did write was:

If this worked, the entire fleet would arrive at Coruscant safely. If not, they could crash into the planet, completely destroying themselves and, quite possibly, the planet itself.

This is in the context of disabling the hyperspace safety devices. Meaning that if they don't drop out at the proper time, they crash into the planet.

I don't assume anything more than what is reasonable usually. If I'm wrong, I correct myself. But you have not shown me that I am wrong.

In fact, I'll even give you that your shields stop laser fire, though I still don't understand how they work exactly. An explanation would help, probabaly, if you're willing to provide one.

I am not willing to concede that my fleet is between you and the planet. And what do you mean, "retarded to allow you to jump directly behind me"? You're letting me jump somewhere? I find that concept amusing at best, as if you're controlling where my ships go. And "I placed your forces on any kind of vector behind me"? Of course you didn't. That's what I did.

And no, I don't mention it directly. I implied it, through the context of my posts. If I had to state specifically every little detail of what I did, then I'd never get anything posted because I'd have to make sure there were no loopholes.

But if you want to go there, my next post will be enjoyable. I'm looking forward to it.

Now, I'm willing to be off to one side, rather than directly behind you, if you can agree to that, since we can't seem to come to a mutual agreement.

Well, arguing the ratio of superiority in numbers is moot; one, we don't measure numbers, and two, the numbers have changed several times with either your or my reinforcements. There's no reason why at the beginning of the thread a 7-1 outnumbering was impossible; we took this attack very seriously, and put more or less every ship we had to spare into it. The numbers have changed and the advantage is closer to par, but we still hold an advantage. It's probably closer to 1-1 than 4-1 currently, though.

As far as you being off to the side, I basically when I made my post imagined that you, the corridor and Kraken's fleet, and my fleet would form a rough triangle. However, since Kraken was between me and the planet, it made logical sense that you were as well. There's no way you can jump in behind me because my interdiction would prevent you from jumping within firing range; the same is true of being in front of me or off to the side, but since those are tactically inferior positions, and the storyline effort was there, I was willing to allow it. Anyway, I am not sure why being between me and the planet is so contentious to you; you can't go anywhere anyway. Might as well keep your back to the sea.

As for the shields and their effect, I went over this in OOC threads years ago around the time of Kiyar I believe. Basically, force = mass times acceleration. Missles and lasers both travel through the same waves of gravity, but lasers have very little if any mass. As such, each time they pass a wave, they lose energy as it dissipates against the bend. As missles and other weapons have mass, they merely suffer slight accuracy drops, which while still reducing their damage effectively by disabling pinpoint strikes, does not effect their yield. Laser based weaponry, or any light energy such as ion weapons, turbolasers, are all substantially reduced to the point where their effectiveness is essentially nill. As denoted most other Imperial ships had long since switched to missles, but as missles are also a limited consumable, it gives us a tactical advantage.

I disagree with you on the jamming since what you're doing is essentially retcon. Same with the positioning of your fleet.

I'm a strictly neutral party, but Ahnk actually has gone into great detail explaining his shield tech and its downsides, if you can find it.

Cree'Ar Shield Explanation

At its most basic level, Cree'ar use gravitric shielding, which has been used by other factions here at TRF, and in several other sci fi universes as well.

This is more of a general reminder...

Shield Ship is an incredible herald of CreeAr technology, however, it is not without its downsides. The waves of gravity are not of the discriminating nature. Much like the double blind that Imperial cloaks create, the gravity pulses decrease the effectiveness of not only incoming energy, but also outgoing energy. Thus, any ship under active shielding by a Shield Ship will have all of its weapons fire reduced as it attempts to return fire.

Essentially, these aren't uber shields, though perhaps this could be portrayed better in future posts.

EDIT: Curse Ahnk being able to post before me. :P

Corise is correct in that ships shielded by my shield ships also have their weapons effected by it as well. My core weaponry this is plasma cannons, which have a projectile with MUCH higher density and mass than lasers, and thus suffers less of an effect.

As for portraying them more effectively, I specifically denoted that their lasers weren't effective. I also specifically said that my ships, the Parrow Lin battleships, were past the effective projection of the shield because of the type of weapons they used.

Come on Corise, keep up here. :P