Actually, I took precautions to ensure I didn't end up like Snowkan. Hence the slaving of the fleet to the Tyrant, the Sith meditation, and the Sith piloting. If an untrained Jedi (Kyp Durron) can safely navigate the Maw, I imagine twelve trained Sith Apprentices could easily navigate their way through the gravitic anomalies created by the Cree'Ar.
And no, he wasn't under Kun's control at that time.
Additionally, according to the article I used as my basis, Jedi can react at hyper-speeds. I am assuming that the battle meld is similar to that created by Jedi as in the NJO series, where one or two Sith serve as the focal point (these are the ones piloting the ship) while the others combine their power to search for obstacles and gravitic anomalies. This information is fed, via the meld, to the one or two (or even three) piloting the ship, and they can react to whatever is in the way.
Which would invalidate Om's post, which I just read.
Anyway, lets start this off by saying, I didn't want to get into this. I really didn't. I was happy when Omnae made his post. It was "oh good, this was nipped in its bud without an OOC argument. But now we need to get into it anyway (HOW FUN!).
You probably COULD have pulled it off if you'd used Skygge (or at least had some semblence of an argument). But no, you used 12 random NPC Sith Apprentices. Random NPC Sith Apprentices shouldn't be able to do complex force techniques. They wouldn't be as powerful as a player controlled apprentice. And you can't compare every single Force user (player controlled or NPC) to Kyp Durron, Jacen Solo, Luke Skywalker, etc (aka those who in the books have been stated as being unnaturally gifted in the force and as super duper jedi).
Some force users are just plain going to suck. They won't be super duper force user guy. They will be mediocre force user guy. Its a fact of life. *(foot note #1 goes here). I would argue that TRF player controlled characters would be more likely to be super duper force user guy than some random NPC guy. You tried to pull a complex move, and then tried to justify it by saying "oh look, i got 12 rando sith, that means I'm good to go". Omnae called you on it in game, I think his way of doing it was a kind of "yo, you can't use random NPC Sith to pull complex moves, this detracts from those who have Force User Characters and put effort into them and isn't fair", without having to bring it to the OOC board. The main reason I could see Omnae doing this is you seem to be utilizing dozens of shuttles, with a dozen sith in each one. Thats like at least 288 complete NPC Sith. What happens next time when you attack someone and you have 288 elite NPC Sith Apprentice Pilots all in star fighters and then say "yeah well luke skywalker and jaina solo and rogue squadron all had ridiculous kill ratios, so I just killed all your fleet, I'm so awesome and leet (but in a ton more words)."? *(insert footnote 2 here) You see the problem here? What happens if I turn around and say "no one's heard from Jesmin Ragabag in years, she had a bit of Jedi talents, what if i pretend she's been secretly training an army of 2000 jedi super soldiers and 1000 jedi super pilots and now I go blow up your NPC sith people + all your ships and use my 2000 Super Soldiers to take coruscant!"?
FootNote #1: I kept this here so it wouldn't distract from the rest of the argument. But it was fun to write, so I figured I'd include it. (insert quote here from New Jedi Order series where Corran was lecturing Anakin Solo about needing to provide a better example for other Jedi as many looked up to him and wanted to emulated him but just plain didn't have the force skills to do it that I could reference page and paragraph, but my copy of the books I own of the NJO series are all at my parents house. I'm pretty sure its the book where Tahiri, Anakin and Corran all go to the planet that the Givin inhabit, you know the one, "yagdul" or something, where Rogue Squadron had a space station in the Bacta War book, you know, book 4 of the X Wing Series, just after Coruscant was taken and they went resigned and started a personal war, just before Wraith Squadron was formed. Oh look, I can reference star wars books, I'm so l33t!!!)
FootNote #2: similar to FootNote #1 An example of your justification for this could be "well in one of the early NJO books, anakin and jaina and jacen all meld together and fly as one and totally outfly every single yuuzhan vong coral skippers in the asteroid field above Dubrillion, so like, image 288 of those, instead of 3, like, I'd be impossible to beat!!!! And you can't argue against it, it happened in the books (kind of, vaguely, but not really at all alike)" (but you'd do it in much better wording and grammar than me, I'll admit that).
The whole point is moot. He's talking about flying past our mass shadows when we don't generate mass shadows. He wouldn't be able to defeat the broad blanket of our interdiction, but I was more than happy to let him, since he put himself in a tactically inferior position by describing his forces needing to avoid the planet itself; hence, he's between my ships and the planet, which basically means he has voluntarily boxed himself in with an armada atop him.
I wasn't looking for any gifts, but if you're giving away free casualties, I'm not going to say no.
I will say that the concept of fucking trainees pulling that off is absurd, whether we want to believe in the power of magical children the book gives off or not. The books are semi-canon for the very reason that some of the shit they pull is so ideologically offensive to the tenants of fairplay and game balance to be far more harmful than good. I mean, just because you can use a book to justify your Vonta Horn esque magical trip through the functionally impossible doesn't mean that anyone here will let you.
I just happen to prefer you willingly throwing yourself into a suicidal position, rather than being stuck in a more tenable and defensible one.
As I often say, and will reiterate now; I think that whatever best suits the story, whatever best supports the plot and makes for a more interesting read is probably the best course of action.
To whit: Quoting Expanded-Universe, or even canon details to support ones position is fundamentally flawed simply because, unlike those publications (print or otherwise) TRF relies on collaborative or combative input. The perspectives shown, while they reflect multiple view points, differ from the aforementioned resources simply because most if not all of those sources were written, outlined or compiled by a single author with a generally singular, unified vision which is rarely the case here.
Can one "steer" a ship through hyperspace? Why not? If it builds a stronger story then I say go for it. Are we, most of us mature enough to solve our differences without standing on soap boxes and shouting insulting, contrary ideas at one another? I would think so. As such, do we need cemented rules which define our fantasy fiction romps? I don't think so.
Wes and I discussed this in private and I think we understand one another quite clearly. My suggestions have been made and I recognize his concerns as well.
Whatever the outcome, I do not think we need to quote source material, insult one another, or otherwise discount the contributions we all put forth.
Also, I tend to regard the word of Om as the word of God in terms of TRF. Why? Am I a kiss ass? Maybe... but what it comes down to is that I'm lazy and it's easier just to agree with the guy and, as he has demonstrated time and again, Om is among a very small, elite group of elders who by and large have proven themselves above bias.
(Ahnk and Titus, I feel, tend to fall into the same category. But not me, I'm a biased, loud mouth prick.)
