There is nothing wrong with debate, Marth, (and that is all I am doing personally speaking) but yes when it turns into nothing but an argument then you won't get anything constructive out of it.

Wes does raise a valid point too though, as far as the BDE war goes.

Same here. All I'm doing is debating - actually, trying to resolve the debate. Oh, and Marth, when I say I ignored what Jan said, I meant in writing up an attempted compromise. When I read his stuff (which I did), it didn't say anything of value. Hence, I ignored it.

I'd also like to point out that I can see a number of posts by people on both sides claiming to not have bothered to read their opponent's entire post. Which makes me wonder, how the hell do you manage to argue so much if neither of you know what you're arguing about?

lmao...

Yes I mean the Cren Alliance. However its economy would be booming, not needing to rebound from some so-called economic slump you seem obsessed with saying it underwent when that follows no logic given what has been previously writtten about them long before this debate ever came up. Because its economy is the military and military production. As has been shown in numerous RPs. As you would have noticed had you bothered to reseearch said subfaction. It has all of 5 planets (2 planets, 2 moons, 1 asteroid belt). Of these, the two planets have construction yards and large shipyards orbiting them. One moon is entirely covered with missile factories. The other moon has a lot of construction yards and missile factories. The asteroid belt is mined for minerals ect. The entire economy IS the military. This faction would be undergoing an economic boom of immense proportions. Because war is good for the economy. As has been said, the Great Depression ended because of WWII. This would be more relevent to the CA because its economy was already geared towards the military. Think of all those SABs, SSSFs, BoP IIIs and Dominator Heavy Cruisers. When I wrote the R&Ds for the first two and the fourth, I was thinking about the Cren Alliance and their economy and made it so the missile launchers were Cren Munition missile launchers and missiles. So the majority of the time we fire a misisle, the place those missiles are coming from is the CA. The Cren economy has nothing to rebound from. Its doing great. But if you knew as much as you pretend to know, you'd already know this. But unfortunately you didn't do your research properly.

Two good reads.... The first is unrelated, the second is somewhat topical to this conversation:

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/economic_of_war/the_economics_of_war.htm

http://economics.about.com/cs/macroeconomics/l/aa032003a.htm

Jan, you are referring to the ships taken over during the Corellian conflict. I was referring to something else.

Thank you, Jan. That is all you had to say to begin with. I will edit the Cren Alliance and place it with the others.

However, as for me not doing my research properly...

I am a full-time college student, in the middle of a semester in which I have seventeen credits. In that, I also work seventeen hours a week, have a half-hour commute each way to school, am an assistant chaplain at a retirement home, am the VP of the history honors society, on the undergrad moot court team, and am studying for my LSAT. I don't have time to read through every single post about the Cren Alliance. I don't have time to try and figure out exactly what you're talking about. I come here to 1) have fun in a fictional, though logical and semi-realistic, environment, 2) to improve my writing skills, and 3) because there are times I need a break from schoolwork. This fills that time. Now, with that much work, do you really expect me to research every little thing I say, especially when I'm attempting to create a solution for what I see as an inhibiting factor on the semi-realisticness of this site? Especially when you've been asked time after time to provide even the name of a thread in which you built up an economy? Or in which you created an economy that thrives on war? I hope not. Because I'm not going to do that with everything else I have going on.

Now, I'll make the change to the Cren Alliance. Once that is done, can we all agree on the compromise and finally end this lengthy debate?

Yes Wes, but I was trying to make Demos do some actual work, rather than spouting off untrue facts and assumptions. But to be fair to you, having actually read the compromise offer in detail, I think after a good once over it looks ok. Minor details such as I'm not sure how much of the Western Province actually belonged to the Coalition at the time of the last GC/TNO war are present, but thats not a major issue. I think I could agree to this, but it would be up to Dolash to make the final decision and up to him to decide if GC even has to agree with it, up to him to decide if there is a point to agreeing to it.

Let me begin by apologizing. My comment in the OOC notes of my Draconis-class Protected Cruiser thread gave birth to this rather massive tho suprisingly civil arguement. For the existence of all this I offer my heartfelt apologies.

Secondly - I have not even tried to read this thread in its entirety. Good points have been made in those sections I scanned over - along with some rather ludicrious statements.

Now, here is my zwei pfennige

SECTION I

Let us look at my statement using only our solar system. Earth is the only inhabited planet -currently - and for some force to take it would require military action against only Eath itself. However, in order to hold and protect the system from an external force, occupation of all of the other planets would be neccessary as their caputre would allow the creation of advance strike basis, launching platforms for intra system projectiles, and colony areas which, if left unchecked, would grow into ahbitated structures that would later have to be taken at a higher cost in blood.

What is my point by saying this - simple. When you hear in my threads I take a planet you will always see me mention the neccessity of conquering the outlying planets for tactical as well as strategic reasons. Now, when conquered, these planets even if unihabited can still be mined and even colonized, to say nothing of militarily exploited. Now you have the resources of 5-20 additional worlds within the system to the one you named.

Point 2 - what if there is more than one inhabited world within the system? Now you have the resources of those twenty worlds and the populations of three or four.


SECTION II

The Empire. For your consideration, the Empire of canon and the EU is stated to be a thousand-thousand systems, Middle English for a million. Even in its depleted state as the Remnant, stretching over a grisly eight sectors, there were still a thousand systems. Now only maybe a dozen of those worlds were named in the Jedi Order books, does that mean that the other 988 systems do no exist? No - there are simply not relevant.

Now, if the Empire here spans most of the galaxy and is the dominant power, would that statement even be possible if we controlled a hundred systems? No - in a galaxy with a billion systems, half of which have never even been seen by explorers (unknowns, wild space, periphery), such a government would be powerful to its neighbors but any true entity would shrug off its attacks and smash it with one concerted effort. Common Sense dictates that there are millions of actions we do not write about - conquest, insurrection, skrimishes, pirates, etc - because they are the routine actions of an Empire at war and always expanding. If you take Corellia, you have to take the systrems around it - which youi do. Why do you not write about it - because you do not want to bore your audience.

SECTION III

Why do we write? To have fun. We do this because we enjoy it perhaps it allows us a brief escape from the harsh realities each of us exists in. We write about the best and worst events of our governments and our characters. We do not concentrate on mundanity or routine because it is not fun. That does not mean that as far as reality is concerned they do not exist, we have simply ignored them so that we can do what we came here to do.

Case in point. People want to ignore the Holocaust and say it nver happened. Does that mean it never happened?

Because we neglect to write about the smaller systems and the happenings there, their conquest or loss, or their general care, does not mena they do not exist. Without the thousands of systems weve never mention, the battles weve never written about, the millions of military units weve never named, and the billions of people we've never killed, our ideas would seem ludicrious.

Case - to someone visiting earth from another government and being told
of the submarine base at Groton Conneticut, he would laugh and call you a liar if he knew the size of the state of conneticut. To any rational person, that sort of power could not be amassed by a government by that small. Add in the much larger government it serves and the mauch larger area from which it draws resources, the idea becomes less and less ludicrious. Just because some small town in Montana is never mentioned in the news or in some scandalous DOD report does not mean it does not contribute say 10 percent of metal X used in production of the class 4 something or other.

SECTION V

In conclusion, let me apologize again for the creation of this thread. You have heard my version of events, the version from which I base my writings, good and bad. I would like to think I have hit the nail on the head.

Well I disagree on many of those ideas Telan, but I'll concentrate on the resource aspect from multiple planets in 1 system, but only doing the 5000 words for 1 of those planets. This is not how the rules work. You do 5000 words to take 1 planet, not 1 system. Sure you may control the whole system from a military standpoint, but you can't count those resources towards your fleet without doing the words for each planet. Its unfair to those who have. For example, GC owns multiple planets in the same system for multiple different systems. Example is the Cren Alliance has 2 systems, but 5 planets (or equivalents) which we spent 5000 words each to take. The Contegorians have done the same thing at least once. Even TNO put in the 5000 words per planet in the Corellian System. If you want the resources, put in the words. If you don't put in the words, you can't count those resources towards your economy, etc. You can reference them ICly in your RPs, it does make logical and strategic sense, but for the fairness of the game, they don't actually count until you put in your effort.