In agreement with Demos:
1) I don't think that everyone or almost everyone in this thread has agreed arguing over the economy is a moot point. It is the semi-realism of the site that is intriguing to many members (me for one), and having factions that seem to never lose money no matter what they do is going against even the semi-realism.
2) The people that I have seen agreeing that this argument is moot are all friends of the Coalition and are consistently anti-TNO. Cases in point: Beff, Jan, Marth. I can't speak for OS, because she and I haven't interacted much, if at all, up to this point. Michael and I differ only on the point of what semi-realism is.
3) The economy is a major part of what makes up the galaxy. It has been roleplayed out on both sides (TNO and GC), so obviously people think it important.
4) What I think GC does not realize is that by trying to say their economy is awesome they are ruining what could be a very good storyline. I agree with Corise's arguments that certain subfactions have good economies, but I think the central government is feeling the pinch.

HOWEVER...
In agreement with Michael:
1) I think TNO does have too many large ships for its economy to also not be feeling a pinch. Manpower-wise I don't think there is a problem, since TNO conscripts soldiers and clones them; however, funds will be running a bit low.
2) The economy is not the end-all argument. There are much more important things (such as Joren's attack on Bilbringi, or RPing in general). This is qualified, though.

HOWEVER...

In disagreement with Michael:
- I do not agree that GC should have the same meterage as the Empire. Refer to Demos's post above for the reason - the system of government is different. Compare the Empire to Germany in 1939-1940 (if you want a real-world example) and the GC to maybe 1939/40 US. Big difference.

If Vinda-Corp held 130 worlds, would you expect them to have a military machine on par with the Empire?

Vinda-Corp no longer holds worlds.

Wilkar

Vinda-Corp no longer holds worlds.

Hence the use of the hypothetical word, "if".

Or, "look at me evade the point with an irrelevent comeback!"

Take your pick...

Here's the problem, Drayson.

Drayson

Whether or not TRF as a community will push the GC to operate on a more realistic level I don't know, but I doubt.

But...

Drayson

there's no need to read or post in the thread

That would seem contrary. You have so much as confirmed my statment that what this is Drayson, is a witch hunt. This is not a discussion for discussions sake, but an attempt by you to try and force the GC to accept your perspective of how-things-are.

It's clear that there will be no conclusion forthcoming and eight pages of bullshit testify to that fact. I'm not saying you're wrong, Drayson; it's just that you're right for all the wrong fucking reasons.

You're right though, there is no need to read or post anything further in this thread. Somehow though, I doubt that will suffice.

Calm the fuck down...?

Whenever I read these... I think about the Star Wars movies and how this is supposed to be the same universe my brain just goes "?"

*wonders if milkshake's brain tastes like Vanilla*

There's no need to read or post in this thread

I do believe that was taken out of context, as it was meant for those who decide to post anti-TNO (or anti-GC) comments without giving valid, logical reasons for their responses. In other words, specifically for you Beff.

Now, there has been some success in this thread. For one, Corise engaged in a logical debate that brought up some very good points. Michael brought up that TNO is employing too many large ships, and that their economy is also feeling a pinch.

What has yet to be accomplished:
1) GC recognizing that there is an economic problem with their faction and realizing that they have the opportunity to create a very good storyline of how they mobilize their economy through war production. For example, they could buy stock in companies that produce war materials (as the Cren Alliance did).
2) All parties involved calming down, as Joren said.
3) Anti-TNO members to become reasonable, and anti-GC members to also become reasonable. Personally, aside from being a member of TNO, I have no stake in it. I think the storyline would be better if we all followed the common sense rule - and I intend to do so with regards to TNO's economy and ship meterage - but it seems that more people are focused on winning than on writing. This applies to both GC and TNO, though I won't list names. Several examples of people more focused on the story, though, would be Corise and Simon. Try following their example.

I think that an easy resolution is possible: STOP FOCUSING ON WINNING AND FOCUS ON A REASONABLE STORY.

Now the question is, how many times in this thread will I have to say that before people actually listen?

It's one of those things we've been saying for a while now.

Sadly, we are and may always be the Math Faction.

For Beff:

Us, and them
And after all we're only ordinary men.
Me, and you.
God only knows it's noz what we would choose to do.
Forward he cried from the rear
and the front rank died.
And the general sat and the lines on the map
moved from side to side.
Black and blue
And who knows which is which and who is who.
Up and down.
But in the end it's only round and round.
Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried.
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There's room for you inside.

"I mean, they're not gunna kill ya, so if you give 'em a quick short,
sharp, shock, they won't do it again. Dig it? I mean he get off
lightly, 'cos I would've given him a thrashing - I only hit him once!
It was only a difference of opinion, but really...I mean good manners
don't cost nothing do they, eh?"

Down and out
It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about.
With, without.
And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?
Out of the way, it's a busy day
I've got things on my mind.
For the want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died.