I don't know about the comment directed at Beff, but I agree with the rest of Vos' last post.

For the record, the Coalition is doing some story threads involving economics right now. Coalition's Light is one that sort of deals with this topic, and Song of Contentment is my own for the Confederation dealing with that. Let's go write.

Beff, until you've become adapt at the art of mind reading, do not dare tell me what my intentions or reasons are.

Unless you have anything of value to add, then I'll kindly ask you to remove yourself from any further "bullshit" in this thread.

Because, if you'll note, all of the "bullshit" has come from people who refuse to offer any kind of logical response to the issues raised, but instead use the fact that someone would dare say that the GC's actions are anything less than god-like.

Somehow, because the GC is smaller, it's blasphemy to point out if they've done something wrong. Heaven forbid someone actually try to engage in rational debate - they're the GC, they can do no wrong!

And people like you fight tooth and nail to let them keep believing that.

That coming from the person who said:

Your example is very, very skewed, and both of us know it.

The only reason I posted in this thread was to politely present things from a GC standpoint in hopes of getting response such as Vos'. Vos is right in this. This looks like it's becoming a mudslinging contest though, in which case I want nothing to do with it.

Your example was skewed. I fail to see what point your trying to make...?

I like how some people (especially Demos) are still posting in this thread trying to "argue" (as they call it) over a matter that everyone else really could not care less about anymore. Multiple members of the staff have made clear that this thread is not accomplishing anything, and that nothing will change as a result of it.

So:

Demos, stop trying so hard to cram things down people's throats. Stop acting like your opinions are law, and stop trying to maneuver around the cries to shut the fuck up like Will Ferrel in Talladega Nights. You are most definitely short of people who agree with you or are even listening to what the fuck you're saying. But most of all, stop pushing this thread because if you're not careful people will start listening to whats come of this and they won't just start stepping in to GC's shit but TNO's as well, and I guarantee you that whatever you may or may not believe to be without a doubt true about your faction probably won't be shared by the staff.

Wes and Corisce, please don't encourage him. I know you guys are trying to have a constructive debate and solve problems that you may believe need solving, and you're doing a good job trying, but trust my experience on this board. There is absolutely nothing constructive about debating with Demos, and nothing constructive can or will come of it.

And everyone else, please stop pushing this thread higher up the board. Even if it is just the mindless babble we all know and love, its only giving people more of a reason to come back here and argue over a subject that should be dead.

Now I don't care if you guys agree with what I've said here (especially, especially you Demos), but this thread has long crossed the line from slightly constructive debate to "who can come up with the wittiest and most intelligent sounding come backs". I don't care how cleverly disguised people are making it seem. Thats what it is. So stop. I know I'm not a staffer, and this post carries no official weight, but for the sake of preserving a remote amount of intelligence in any of you.

Stop.

Well said.

Close it.

I believe the thread has it's merit... but were just a bunch of closed minded pricks so it will never go anywhere but down.

And we still never discussed the effects of inflation on the Sith - for example, the increasing value of a human life making our work difficult.

Perhaps we should just become taxmen?

I have done thus - the Imperial Fleet is not limitless, simply massive given the thousands of worlds contained therein and the easy of defensiblity since we, unlike some other governments, believe in symetry of our borders. We do not take a world over here, and then a system over there - we try to unite them for strategic sense' sake.

Therefore, given the Empire's rather sizable resources, we are able to produce a lot of warships, many of which are heavier and slower but quantifiablely better armored than others. However, as a result, our calibre and number of smaller ships suffers on a given scale.

Also, new ships are given to sectors wher they may be needed. Second rate sectors and those with lo threat classifications are given much older ships that serve the purpose of waving the flag and stopping pirates and brigandage but would not be able to stand up well in a fleet engagement.

It is a matter of perspective.

If anyone thinks I have been unfair in the way I depict the Empire or has a fault with my realism, please say so and I will endeavor to correct it.

I haven't chipped in on this argument until now because as far as I could see it doesn't really matter - we believe what we believe, based on what we've written and read, and a slugfest in the OOC forum isn't going to change anyone's mind. It just gets people mad at each other.

Despite this, considering how almost everyone else has weighed in so far, I think I should at least spare a few words, so let me say this: the Empire is stronger than the Coalition.

I don't contest this. Sure, there's vague undefined things being thrown around as justifications like how much damage some war or other did to someone's economy or whatever, and on the other side there's comments about how the Empire just assumes things without really working it out, but these arguments muddy the waters and get people arguing about semantics and each other's tactics without really making any points.

The Empire has been around longer, has been more secure, is in the same league as the Coalition in terms of territory but still has substantially more, and has a lot more of the powerful, stable centers of industry, commerce, and population under their belt.

That's not to say the Coalition isn't strong too. We're big, we've actually been doing pretty well lately in our fights, and if there's ever been an example of a faction having nothing handed to them so having to build everything up from scratch it could well be us - we've had to work out in detail things an Imperial roleplay takes for granted, and it's helped us along the way. However, we're still simply not as big or developed yet as the Empire in terms of what actually exists in the setting.

What does this mean practically speaking? Not all that much.

It does mean that if we keep up grinding with the Empire, then yes, the Coalition will wear itself out first. Our warmachine is strong but it doesn't measure up to the Empire's in terms of scale. However, on a thread-to-thread, post-to-post, ship-to-ship basis it means almost nothing. Any one Coalition fleet can be just as big or developed as an Imperial fleet, the Coalition can build fortresses and what have you. The only time this sort of thing should really impact our writing is perhaps in the flavour and in overal galactic strategy. Threads are still decided by the writing and talent of two equally matched writers, let campaigns be about the bigger issues.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we in the Coalition can't honestly claim to be as powerful as the Empire if we're doing some sort of bean-counting, ship-measuring, whose is bigger thing, but there's a reason why we don't do that any more. In terms of story and character, the Coalition's just as developed as the Empire and I'd pit Regrad against Simon, Joren against Drayson, or Corise against Wes any day of the week, and isn't that all that matters? Come talk to me after the Coalition's eighth straight fleet loss in a row and we'll talk about working more realism into our portrayl of tough times.

You may all now begin a bloodbath over my nonebinding remarks about finding the economy interesting but not critical to good story development or even normal competitive writing.