I'm well aware that Kashan is a militaristic state, and we're not arguing the presence of a fleet around Metalorn. That was a wider comment about the difference between TRF and canon, in general. Canon does not always automatically apply to TRF, for reasons like I described.
I missed the reference to detecting the Imperial fleet. I am skeptical about your ability to detect ships in hyperspace (never mind identify them as hostile), though.
My point about ion canons is only that you cannot say "but in this RP X happened, therefore that's the case". I guarantee there are RPs where the opposite happens, and ion canon fire is stopped by shields. Same goes for canon - contradictions of the sort are commonplace.
Yes, a frigate and a Star Destroyer are different beasts entirely. It would be grossly unfair to assume that an LNR will destroy a Star Destroyer in a single firing. :)
Well that's the problem see. You never mentioned raising the shields on any of your ships, before or after they micro-jumped out of the system. The only shields you mentioned as being raised were the planetery shields.
Yeah and you know full well that doesn't fly anymore. The staff (Titus specifically), ruled in the last big war that there were putting an end to the whole "you forgot to mention shields being raised, so now you are screwed". And you should know this Kraken. Furthermore, you used particle weapons against him, and particle shields are kept on at all times to prevent damages from meteorites and space debris. It is ray shields which are not kept powered at all times and which you used to have to mention were raised.
An edit is in order Kraken. Don't try to pull this shit just because Corise is new to TRF and therefore wasn't around when the staff made that ruling and therefore would not necessarily know about it.
You know, normally I would be forgiving, but seeing as how Corcise has pulled so much shit out of his ass already, I don't think I will be.
EDIT: I think I'll expand on my point a bit. While I love R&Ding and all that, I would gladly RP on a board enviorement if there was a huge limit or no R&Ds at all present. The reason for this being, is that these past five or six pages consisting of mainly what this person's tech can and cannot do is bullshit. Also, how is it that an only recently founded confederation, while yes it does have some support from a galatic goverment, suddenly come up with a huge fleet of highly advanced and technical warships, several minefields with a hundred million advanced mines, and constantly maintaing planetery defenses on full alert, all on short notice, and how the hell can they afford it? We've already passed off on a ton of shit on this thread. Doesn't mean we'll pass off on everything.
With all due respect, Jan, this is not your thread.
With regards to Corise's shields... normally I agree with the previous staff ruling regarding shields. It's logical, fair, and in keeping with TRF's primary purpose: story.
However, the GC "side" as it were has made one thing abundantly clear in this thread: if TNO neglects to mention something specifically, they will take advantadge of this. An obvious example was the original claim that "oh, you didn't specify which ships you were firing on". Another example would be the gravity well on the EMPIRE. Or the demand that TNO explain precisely, exactly how they overcame Corise's stealth ships (because we all have PhDs in physics relevent to made up ships, materials, etc.).
*shrug*
It would be awfully nice of Kraken to give Corise is the benefit of the doubt. But given the Coalition's precident in this thread, I see no reason why he should/would.
Yeah it would. But seeing how, as we've given him the benefit of the doubt several times already, and he's taken full advantage to exploit our own mistakes, I say it's time to stop letting him off easy.
First off, the minefields you are talking about aren't nearly that large, nor did I ever claim they were that big. That would be obscene and not common sense. You say that I have a huge fleet, but the entire fleet of the Confederation from every planet doesn't even equal the number of starships sent attacking Metalorn. And on short notice? The Confederation founding state, which is Kashan, has been around for over a half a year now. It's not completely sudden.
Nor was it Kaines or Vos. If one side does it, than the other should be allowed to. Otherwise, it's sheer hypocrisy.
That is a violation of TRF as stated within the Rules and FAQ. Nor did the Coalition alone bring it up; Mr. Stellar pointed that.
Is there a reason it shouldn't? Would it make sense for me to suddenly pick up the Shroud Cruisers at Metalorn right now and say I know that "Just because"? This goes back to the rule of Common Sense. Common Sense says there should be a reason why or how a stealth ship would be detected.
Common Sense applies to a ship's shielding as well. Kach never posted that he raised his shields. Does that mean that suddenly all of his ships should instantly be blown up because he didn't mention his shields being raised on the starboard?
The other fact that Jan mentioned is undeniable. That is a canon statement. If we start redefining what technology is or how it is activated, does that mean that I should state TNO overheated their turbolasers on that last barrage and so they melted? Is TNO really that dumb? I doubt it very much. Likewise, the Confederation isn't going to do something that goes against automatics that every spacer, even the most basic shuttle pilot, would know.
Yes, Corise. It is 100% logical that your ships would raise shields before going into combat.
Just like it is 100% logical that TNO gunners would target the most apparent threat before anything else.
So it's a moot point - the GC set a precident regarding the rule of charity and the significance of specific details.
This is not Kaine's thread, no. But he is staff, and his (one!) post reflected that fact. You'll notice my comment towards Jan is not the first time this has come up: I said the same thing to Ben, and the same thing to Beff in another thread. I admit I did not say anything to Vos, yes. Does that make it any less true that it is not their thread? No.
The gravity well on the EMPIRE is an example only: yes, it was not specifically mentioned in the R&D. Few of its weapons were. It is a story vehicle.
The example of your cloaked ships is obvious: TNO purposefully deployed a rare ship designed to detect things with the knowledge that you utilize stealth technology. This point is not up for debate.
Kach's shields are up.
Regarding ray shields vs. partical shields: again an area of contradiction, as there is canon evidence supporting the idea that the same shields intercept missiles and lasers (the one that comes to mind is the X-wing books).
This debate has been had, and one of the issues brought forth has been the fact that partical shields are designed for low-velocity, low-damage collisions (i.e. meteors). That's quite a difference from high explosive warheads.
Yes, Corise. It is 100% logical that your ships would raise shields before going into combat.
If this in reference to your initial attack on the convoy, there would be no threat, as the only guards would be the squadrons of Deathsabers escorting it, which you wouldn't be able to detect.
I would disagree. There are certain technical details that I have brought up, but so have you. And in most cases, I have acquiesced to them as well.
I would disagree to some extent. Omnae pointed out that his views were personal and not from the viewpoint of a staff member. Seeing that have both of the above TNO members have posted more than once on this, I do not see why a single Coalition member should not be allowed to post in the same manner. The issues being brought up also effect the rest of the community, such as SE, in how fleeting is now handled. I think they should have a voice in such manners. Moreover, as the starter of this thread to begin with, I believe that I have some say in how that works.
I don't doubt that they were brought to detect and track them, but can they? My CGT point still stands.
Agreed.
That is odd. Not to debate this, but I'm interested in that. If you have the chance or bother to look it up for some reason, could you tell me the page number? I have the X-wing series myself.
Agreed. But this is a double-edged sword mind you. Both sides are using electromagnetic guns (ie Gauss Cannon and Railgun), of similar power on vessels of exactly the same length. If a TNO ship does something that heavy, then will not the more widespread Cavaliers be doing the exact same thing?
There is a huge difference in asking for someone to describe how they find a cloaked ship and saying "oh, you didn't specifically mention that your shields are up, so they aren't". In the first, someone put effort into making a ship that has the advantage of not being able to be seen easily. In the second, someone forgot to add the words "Shields Up".
Similarily, the R&D rules CLEARLY state that the ship must have a detailed description. This description would have to include something as specialized as a gravity well generator for it to be allowed. Especially since it was mentioned in the same R&D for a different version of the ship, but not that one. Where as previous staff rulings stated that people should not take advantage of their opponent forgetting to say shields up.
Regardless of whether he stated his shields are up, PARTICLE shields are ALWAYS up. They are what protect a ship from meteorites and other small space objects when a ship is just there in space and especially when a ship is in hyperspace (which would not be a "low-velocity" impact at all). Furthermore, unlike that you say, particle shields are the ONLY way to stop missiles and such. Why else would ships have to lower their particle shields to launch fighters and missiles? And I can start quoting the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology again on this point. They wouldn't be completely effective against the projectile shells being used, but they would do something to slow them down/stop them.
On the issue of the ships that TNO targetted.
When TNO started firing, the only GC ships in firing range where cloaked or freighers. So you had no option but to fire on the freighters (because the Contegorian fleet came out of hyperspace at the newly extended range of the Interdictor and therefore not within conventional firing range of the Imperials. So it made sense your ships would fire on the only available target.
As for the Surveyor
The point is that the Surveyor uses a CGT, which is inconclusive close to a planet (which in this case it is). However, you will note that I did propose a compromise on this.
