The Great Atlantean Empire
Posts: 2453
  • Posted On: Dec 12 2006 1:04am
Understood. Sorry. I more meant it as a suggestion, but re-reading, yes I realize the wording was bad and looks like a dictated command.
Posts: 4195
  • Posted On: Dec 12 2006 5:36am
ok. I understand what you are trying to do but in order for you to actually merge your "made-up story" with TRF and SW canon, you will simply have to make adjustments.

Like any newbie, what you have done is put forth that your stuff is the best. Period. When you are told something doesn't jive or make sense, you do adjust slightly but the adjustment doesn't address the issue of everyone's ire, namely, you being the best.

For example: You started by saying your Atlantean Empire was a galaxy spanning Empire. Then you say that despite all the interaction it would have had with millions of worlds, no one owns a map to their worlds (except those that you say attacked.. funny how they found a map). But when that didn't jive with Star Wars history in general, you adjusted it to a mere 20 star systems. But, and here's where I laughed, instead of saying your great Empire fell or succumbed to corruption or whatnot over the millenia to answer for this "shrinking", you try to save face by saying they "shrank diliberately" because they did not want the "younger races dependent on them"?

That does not make sense. Maybe to a teenager who has not experienced much in life, this may make all the sense in the world but we like to add a dose of reality to our little make-believe universe patterned after Lucas' vision. Show me one government that "shrank" for altruistic motives anywhere.


I am sorry but it stinks of bullshit and everyone has been saying, "that's bullshit". Now you make a semi-good point in saying that people should stop saying, "that's bullshit" in general and simply tell you what to change.


However, the response to that is, if you cannot discern what needs to change then perhaps you are not ready (or mature enough) to lead a faction on TRF.

Our members do not have the time to go through your posts line by line and throw out bullshit and offer suggestions. It is not their job to write your story for you or to make your 'story' fit into TRF. That's your job and so far it's one that you have been failing at.


And the reason this is happening is because of one fact: That you want to take the cake and eat it too.


Why else would your character not simply be just a smuggler, gun-runner or whatever flying around in his personal ship? No, he's also some Royal Navy Commander Admiral Emperor [or whatever](why the heck some Naval Commander of the (presumably) most advanced species in the galaxy would need to fly around in a transport as a gunrunner is beyond me.).

Why else would your ships be so monstrously huge that they can defeat the best the Galactic Empire can throw at them in minutes?

And because of these 'uber' claims, you expect instant respect as a veteran?

And I am sorry, but you aren't going to get it.



Here is why:


TNO. Aka The Galactic Empire. aka, your personal nemesis. You may know them as "The Empire" in Star Wars... Palpatine and Darth Vader, Grand Moff Tarkin and the Death Star. According to canon (official Star Wars History based on the Movies, books, etc..) the rebels won. Return of the Jedi. You may have seen it, I am sure. In the comics and books that continued the story after Return of the Jedi, you may know that the Empire was not dead but simply retreated but continued to fight. Where TRF and canon diverge happens around the Black Fleet Crisis series of books.

Therefore, the New Jedi Order series did not happen in the TRF/SW Universe. There was no massive coordinated Yuuzhan Vong invasion like the NJO series puts forth.

No, in the TRF Universe, the faction called The New Order (representing the Galactic Empire), AFTER 5+ YEARS OF ROLEPLAYING, have secured their position in the galaxy. Granted the TRF galaxy is a little more crowded than canon but that's to be expected as TRF is a cooperative as well as competitive roleplaying environment.


The position of strength you see TNO as having is not something that sprang up overnight. It is not something they simply 'claimed' to have and it was so like you are trying to do. It is the culminating efforts of several roleplayers over a span of 5, 6 or 7 years (since back when the Rebel Faction members were a part of the Gungan Council rpg board).


And here's something else. There are other factions in the galaxy that also enjoy a nice position of strength. The Galactic Coalition for one, The Union and Vinda Corporation for others. Is this something that happened overnight? Are they strong because they claim 'uber' stuff (not counting Corise.. :b )?

No. They are strong because their characters are not one dimensional. They are strong because of their intricate stories that, when put together, give their faction a depth that doesn't disappear easily.


Between TNO and GC, there are old villians and old heroes. There are up and coming new villians and heroes as well as time and circumstance plot and scheme to put our characters in different and sometimes defining situations.


After years of roleplaying, we have accomplished this.


And then here you come suddenly saying, your empire can "beat TNO and GC in minutes". That the canon history that TRF is based upon is not correct but that it's really your empire that made things happen and that all our hard work over the years (in story) is only possible because of what your empire did way back when.


The most obvious question that any reasonable TRF'er can ask would be "Who the hell are you?"


Your claims are based on what? Where is your work? Where is the effort?


Without meaning too, you have basically reduced everyone's work to mere shadows with your claims. You expect your faction to be recognized by TRF as the most advanced species in the galaxy simply on your "say so" and a small paragraph post?


I am sorry, but it is not going to happen.




Now, I am going to go line by line from your historical post and make notes as to why your claims may or may not work.




The Great Atlantean Empire
Ookami Jasaica gazes down at the bustling streets of Ciucando Imperia, or Imperial City. This sprawling metropolis was pathetically small compared to Coruscant, only about 700 kilometers across,




Fine.



but is was the seat of the most advanced race in the galaxy: the Great Atlantean Empire.



Not true. I will assume this is propaganda. No evidence to support this at all.




*sigh*

There was a time, thousands of years ago, when the Altantean Empire spanned the galaxy.



This is fine. It will have to be so long ago that no one remembers.



Then, as younger races began to explore and establish their own borders, the Empire shrank . . . deliberately.




This is bullshit. It doesn’t happen. The empire shrank because it was ossifying, dying or decaying. A strong government just does not shrink leaving it’s member worlds to the barbarism of anarchy.



The Emperors of the past did not want space-faring peoples to become dependent on the Empire for too long.



Bullshit line. Remove it.



Some, like the Galactic Republic, eventually became allies. Others, like the Vong and the Ssi-Ruuk, became hated enemies.



The Vong are not from the Coursca galaxy. So your empire would not even be aware of them as they only traversed the distance between stars enmasse recently in TRF history. As for the Republic, you’ll have to make a decision that is addressed later.



As the number of governments grew, the Empire slowly shrank, until it contained only the twenty original home systems, who had been members of the Empire for over 200,000 years.



As the centuries passed, your empire shrank to 20 systems. Fine. And if they want to go on about their old glory that has fallen by the wayside, fine. But most of their history would be lost as they abandoned resources to shrink to their 20 systems.


The Atlanteans remained neutral and very passive, repelling only the occasional intruder. They were allies with the Galactic Republic and watched it rise, peak, and then fall. Their military was present at the Battle of Geonosis, and fully supported Chancellor Palpatine in the war against the Separatists.



You will have to make a decision. Either your Atlanteans were members of the Old Republic or they were neutral. If neutral, then no, they would not be present at Geonosis. You can’t say they were passive in one line and then say then were fully supporting war in the preceding lines. You make the first claim of being passive, bullshit.



At one point, the CIP actually launched a massive invasion, hoping to easily crush the small government. This failed . . . miserably. The CIP invasion fleet, a force of well over a thousand ships, was destroyed in a matter of minutes by a fleet of Altantean destroyers.



No. Nadda. First, the CIP were separating from the Republic. If your empire was not a member of the Old Republic, they wouldn’t have given two shits about it. So, if the CIP invaded the Atlantean planet, then your Atlantean were members of the Galactic Republic. None of this neutral BS.

Also, the CIP would not have launched a thousand warships to your world and they wouldn’t have been destroyed in a matter of minutes. Either rewrite or delete.



After two more failed attempts, the Separatists saw the end of their invasion of the Great Atlantean Empire. It is believed that these costly invasion attempts are what depleted the Separatist fleet and led to their defeat at the Battle of Coruscant.



Nope. Atlanteans would not have withstood two more attempts. Not when the CIP would have been attacking one world with a 700km city.



When Emperor Palpatine formed the Galactic Empire, he saw only one government capable of stopping him: The Great Atlantean Empire.



Nope. Erase.



Like the Separatists during the war, he sought to destroy this ancient people.



I don’t think he would have given a shit about the Atlanteans. He got what he wanted, a Galactic Empire..which leads me to your next BS.



He sent a force of 150 ships with orders to "crush them into pieces, then grind them into the dust." In a cruel twist of fate, it was the Empire who was crushed into pieces and ground into the dust. Not a single ship ever returned, nor has there been any word of prisoners or survivors . . . not even the faintest whispered rumor.



You’re kidding right? BS. Erase.



The Emperor tried three more times in the 20 odd years that the Galactic Empire stood. They all ended the same way: thousands of ships lost with all hands. four attempts, seven failures.



With not a whisper of this? Nope. BS. Erase. This is too fantastic of a premise to even be credible. And the Empire still stands. Get your facts straight before assuming. Just because the Death Star and Emperor blew up in ROTJ doesn’t mean the Empire died. It just got a swift kick in the nuts.



Although not active in the Galactic Civil War, the Atlanteans did make their contributions, such as one InuYasha Sanyo.



So much for neutrality.

InuYasha Sanyo a first glance, appears to be your average mercenary, smuggler, and gun-runner. A closer look reveals a different story. InuYasha Sanyo is actually the pseudonym adopted by Vice Admiral Ookami Jasaica, Vice Commander of the Atlantean Royal Navy, and leader of the 10th Valkyriean Royal Guard (the Emperor's personal guard). Other Atlanteans who joined the fight include: Havas Terasin, Karis Makilik, and Jaress Tavela.



The Rebellion is over.


After the fall of the Empire, and the rise of the New Republic, the Atlantean Empire began expanding . . . for the first time in over 50,000 years. With approval from the New Republic, the Empire re-asserted its claim to over 300 systems, although they stated that the Republic would maintain official control over these systems, but with the Altantean military would have strategic jurisdiction in the region. Atlantean transports and warships, with their sleek lines, graceful curves, and incredible size, became a common sight throughout the New Republic.


In TRF history, the New Republic had a lifespan of about 16 ½ years.



With the rise of the New Order, however, the Atlanteans lost not only their military jurisdiction in the newly acquired systems, but also their claim on them.

Currently the Altantean Empire occupies a sector of the Unknown Regions, which contains the twenty Core Worlds, including the capital world of Atlantia. (note: these systems would not appear on any map)




Forget the note, if they mingle with Old Republic and New, they would appear on a map. And as a “faction on TRF”, you would only hold Atlantia. You would have to do a 5000 word roleplay for each additional world (20 worlds at 5000 words each makes for 100,000 words). Once you complete all 100,000 words, you can claim your “twenty core worlds’.


Nothing definitive has been heard, but there are rumors that the Atlanteans may be planning their own large-scale military offensive . . .




With one planet?



and with ships in excess of 20 kilometers long, the term "large-scale" has a whole 'nother meaning to the Atlantean people . . .



Ships are too big. If a 2000 meter warship stretches the resources of a star system, then 10 of them would break it. I do not see how a 700km city can not only fund and support the construction of just one ship like this let alone crew it.



but these are only whispered rumors heard by smugglers and pirates out on the rim . . . hardly reliable sources.

But when the New Republic trade lanes were filled with Atlantean craft, it stands to reason they know who your peeps are.
Posts: 36
  • Posted On: Dec 13 2006 10:34pm
Okay, let me clarify more than a few things. I realize the contradictions, and I am working on fixing them. Also, the Atlantean Navy reached its peak at a time when they controlled hundreds of systems. Also, Atlantean vessels have a long service life, so they can be mothballed and still be capable of serving hundreds of years later. Most ships, however, are decommissioned after 250 years, unless still in active service. Sufficed to say, the Atlantean Navy is only a fraction of what it used to be. And I keep forgetting to delete that 'large-scale offensive" part. That was supposed to go along with a campaign, but I recently changed the nature of the campaign. Sorry. Still working to fit this in.
Posts: 2462
  • Posted On: Dec 13 2006 10:44pm
What part of this are you not getting?

Your Empire never spanned hundreds of worlds. It never had a massive fleet. If you're coming to TRF now, your fleet is not "a fraction of what it once was", it is one ship. One small ship.

Forget about your massive Empire's history, forget about your 25km ships. They will not fly here. Period.

If you want an Empire, build it. HERE.
Posts: 36
  • Posted On: Dec 13 2006 11:01pm
Every Empire has a story, Dem, even the made up ones. The Star Wars universe is filled with unknowns. I'm just filling in a part of it. Like I have said several times, THIS IS ALL JUST FOR INTERNAL RPing! The history presented here is not to give me an advantage in Fleeting, or in ground battles, or even to say "That's my old planet, I want it back," but to RP as the commander of a fleet that isn't what it used to be. As far as TRF history, fine, I can go with ONE ship and ONE planet, and write about the rest. This is a set-up for those posts. Like I have said before, everything was already thought out. I know what is on each planet, and how I am going to write those. Again, it will take time. This is only an IC history, not an OOC history. If you wish to help me write an OOC history, I appreciate it. Maybe that's the problem: people think this an OOC history *sigh*. I shall add the appropriate notes.
Posts: 36
  • Posted On: Dec 13 2006 11:03pm
Oops. Now I know what the problem is . . . I posted it in both places. I was confusing this one with the Battlegrounds post. I will make changes to that one, too. I need to close this thread. Sorry for all the trouble. I just now realized where I had put this copy. Honest mistake, I admit I was wrong, now just STOP WITH THE INSULTS AND FLAMES! . . . please.
Posts: 602
  • Posted On: Dec 13 2006 11:27pm
The IC post is not gonna fly. I can tell you that right off the bat. First, you have the Atlanteans crushing the Empire's forces and the Seperatists still. It would be better if you said that the Atlanteans had no contact with either, since you shouldn't have a large number of ships.

Secondly, you failed to research TRF history. The Jedi Order is based on Naboo. And they probably wouldn't care too much about the smugglers on their planet, unless I miss my guess. The Jedi aren't what they used to be.

There are other problems as well, but I've got exams to study for and don't have time to post them all. But try to fix those two problems at least.
Posts: 36
  • Posted On: Dec 13 2006 11:31pm
Okay, OOC version is now up. What do think? Again, this is the OOC post. The IC history is located in the Battlegrounds section under the same title. Please, if you wish to comment on that one, PM me, as I would like to save that one as my 5,000 word post on the "Atlantean Empire".
Posts: 2462
  • Posted On: Dec 13 2006 11:47pm
I think you're still not getting it.

There was a time, thousands of years ago, when the Altantean Empire spanned the galaxy. Then, as younger races began to explore and establish their own borders, the Empire shrank . . . deliberately. The Emperors of the past did not want space-faring peoples to become dependent on the Empire for resources and protection. So, the Empire evacuated its 20 colonies throughout the galaxy, and shrank back, eventually holding only their Core System of five worlds.

The Atlanteans remained neutral and very passive, repelling only the occasional intruder. They were secretive even during the Confederate uprising, secretly supporting the Republic with unseen support. A CIP fleet launched was sent to launch a surprise attack on Naboo, and an Atlantean fleet intercepted and destroyed it. At one point, the CIP actually launched a massive invasion, hoping to easily crush the small government. This failed . . . miserably. The CIP invasion fleet, a force of well over 70 ships, was destroyed in a matter of minutes by a squardon of Altantean destroyers. After two more failed attempts, the Separatists saw the end of their invasion of the Great Atlantean Empire.

When Emperor Palpatine formed the Galactic Empire, he saw only one government capable of stopping him: The Great Atlantean Empire. Like the Separatists during the war, he sought to destroy this ancient people. He sent a force of 150 ships with orders to "crush them into pieces, then grind them into the dust." In a cruel twist of fate, it was the Empire who was crushed into pieces and ground into the dust. Not a single ship ever returned, nor has there been any word of prisoners or survivors . . . not even the faintest whispered rumor. The Emperor tried three more times in the 20 odd years that the Galactic Empire stood. They all ended the same way: thousands of ships lost with all hands. four attempts, seven failures. Although not active in the Galactic Civil War, the Atlanteans did make their contributions, such as one InuYasha Sanyo.


Because this is a very logical, realistic, and likely turn of events. Give me a break. Forget about ANY history of a 'Great Empire' - it never happened. If you want to make your group into a great Empire, good for you.

But abandon this notion that it ever WAS a great Empire. It might work great for your book, but it will not fly on TRF or in SW canon.

InuYasha Sanyo a first glance, appears to be your average mercenary, smuggler, and gun-runner. A closer look reveals a different story. InuYasha Sanyo is actually the pseudonym adopted by Vice Admiral Ookami Jasaica, Vice Commander of the Atlantean Royal Navy, and leader of the 10th Valkyriean Royal Guard (the Emperor's personal guard). Other Atlanteans who joined the fight include: Havas Terasin, Karis Makilik, and Jaress Tavela.

So he leads the Emperor's guards, and in his spare time, is a mere smuggler/mercenary? Again, totally illogical/unrealistic/silly.

Either he's a smuggler, or he's a high-ranking member of the Empire. Not both, and certainly not both at the same time. Your Emperor is just going to say "oh, okay, go risk your life for no good reason"?

Right...

With the rise of the New Republic, the Atlatean Senate saw the opportunity to expand the Empire's borders. The Emperor, however, did not agree, and ordered that any plans to reclaim lost territory be ceased immediately, stating "This time belongs to the younger races now. Someday, we will once again span the galaxy, but until the others are willing to join us, we will remain in the shadows."

That's just stupid. See first point.

Currently the Altantean Empire occupies a sector of the Unknown Regions, which contains the Core System, consisting of five worlds, including the capital world of Atlantia. (note: these systems would not appear on any map)

There are rumors that the Atlanteans may be planning their own large-scale military offensive . . . but these are only whispered rumors heard by smugglers and pirates out on the rim . . . hardly reliable sources, for the Atlantean Royal Military is under direct orders from the Emperor
not to get involved directly.

Explain how they were once a major galactic power, yet nobody knows where they are? That's like talking about England but not knowing where it is, just that it exists.

"Time to retake what was rightfully ours."

So they have orders not to get involved, but they're going to retake what is 'rightfully theres'.

Makes perfect sense... or not.



Simply: forget everything you just wrote. If you want this Empire to work at TRF, you need to start from scatch. Your history was fine - as a stand alone "alternate reality" - but it does not fit into SW canon or TRF. Your "revised" history works slightly better, but it relies on a totally ridiculous premise (that the Empire purposefully shrank).

It would never happen. So forget about it.

Roleplay, have fun. Save creating a group for when you know how things work a little better - right now you've had all the help we can offer, and you're still not getting it.

And people are getting tired of you.

So, in everyone's interest, I would seriously consider just dropping this until you know enough to do it properly.
Posts: 5711
  • Posted On: Dec 13 2006 11:54pm
I'm going to close this thread if I see one more post. This is tantamount to beating a dead horse (see how I did that? tantamount : horse). Obviously InuYasha is a fucking idiot who cannot understand TRF or is simply refusing to do so.

Round and round the mullberry bush... I'm going to fucking nuke you.

This is the last warning, Yasha. Smarten up and show some sign of understanding, hell I'd settle for some sign of sentience, or stfu on a permanent basis?

I stuck up for you because I thought you had the merit to turn around and get it. Five pages in and you're still asking and repeating the same dumb ass questions. Really, how goddam far do you expect our community to go?

Last. Chance. Period.