...that is an absolutely awesome picture, Heir. E>

Re: Shieldships

Sorry about that. I assumed you had more than that in the system, something like 20-30, considering the size of your fleet. That seemed reasonable, but I guess I was underestimating the actual power of these things. Still, without that impact, I pretty much have no post, because that chance happening is the basis of the whole post. I'll see if I can figure out a way to remedy that, but otherwise I would appreciate it if you would let it go - just RP that you have a couple extra shieldships.

Re: Positions

Simon, Beff, and Heir are behind you. Watch out.

Regarding fleet positions, though, as I said I'm willing to say I'm at 90 degrees to you and the other Imperial fleet. The angle on which I'm coming in makes it reasonable that one of my ships, if it overshoots, would likely hit the shieldship closest to your flank. After that, I would say it's reasonable that you shift your fleet to protect the others, so destroying any more is going to be quite difficult.

Re: Cybernetic Network

My point in saying that is that those resources are not something that we can affect, other than a virus (assuming we knew that you were using such a network, which we don't). While it may have been mentioned in passing, there is a certain aspect of ambiguity there that makes it hard to even write a post in response to you. Far be it from me to suggest a return to bean counting, but there is a balance that I think we all need to find regarding resources that will be used with/against other players. Example: I keep, for my use, a list of all capital ships used by the SS, along with their captains, for continuity purposes and so that I am forced to act within the limits of what I actually own. This is not based on any defined limits, but it is a limit I have placed on myself. Additionally, it allows anyone who wants to know what the SS can bring to the table to have a list and a defined limit so both players can write a better story.

Re: Jamming

Astromechs, at least the ones used in the SS fighters, are specifically designed for certain tasks. They are internal rather than external, completely contained within the ship. They don't perform standard maintenance, at least not external maintenance. They can run diagnostics on damage, perform rudimentary battle functions (locating and designating targets, etc.), and perform calculations. In fact, the latter is the primary reason they are integrated into the ship, since the astromech can calculate a hyperspace jump much quicker than any pilot or even a nav computer (for evidence, read the X-Wing series).

As such, one of their abilities is distinguishing patterns of numbers and calculating those numbers. By using numeric jamming, you opened yourself to the possibility that a pattern could be inserted into the random sequences. An astromech programmed to make complex calculations and find patterns in sequences of numbers would be able to pick out such a pattern and, though it would take time, would be able to translate that into Basic. Especially considering that astromechs speak Binary as a primary language (they have to, to interact with computers like they do) and are programmed to translate the binary language of computers into the Basic of humans and other sentient beings.

That being true, the astromechs in the SS fighters would be able to do exactly what I said they could do in my post. The longer delay would be in encoding the orders into Basic on the ship and sending them over and over, enough for the droids to pick up a pattern. That makes it a very inefficient form of communication for ship-to-ship talk, when light signals are faster, but for ship-to-fighter or fighter-to-fighter communications, where line-of-sight light signals are impossible, it allows some communication.

Re: Tyderium

The reason they took so long to clear the code was not the delay in transmission/decoding, but the fact that it was an older code. It took longer to find in the system, and they had to make sure that someone wasn't trying to pull a fast one on them using a captured Imperial code. Which someone was, but that's beside the point.

Interaction between an astromech and a computer, such as when R2 plugs into a system and immediately pulls up diagnostics, etc., is a better example of interaction between droids and binary code.

Furthermore, we are 35-40 years removed from RotJ by this point, How much has technology on earth advanced during the last 30-40 years? Wouldn't it be reasonable to think that Star Wars technology has advanced at least that much, if not more? So the processing speed of a computer, not to mention the capacity of an astromech brain, would have drastically increased.

I have huge issues with some parts of your post and minor issues with others. I am at work but will post a response when I get home.

That said, you're being entirely reasonable and logical now, which at least makes working with you more pleasant than brain damaging.

Furthermore, we are 35-40 years removed from RotJ by this point, How much has technology on earth advanced during the last 30-40 years?

We're still using this one? The Old Republic was twenty-five thousand years old when it collapsed. In that time, the most substantial development to hyperdrive technology was the HIMS, which (in case you weren't aware) was created because some guy wrote a book in which he caused a whole solar system to be interdicted, and then realized he needed a plot device to get Luke Skywalker into said system.

"Look at how much cooler everything is now than the stuff we had forty years ago" is a great argument for how the internet has changed the world; however, it has no bearing on the computation power of pretend robots.

If you and Ahnk want to hurl nonsensical arguments at each other for the next three months, go ahead, I'll stay well out of the way; just leave the "real world" out of it, because the real world has no bearing on the Force, hyperdrive, astromech droids, or the pretend deductions of a pretend person trying to pretend he accidentally blew up a pretend spaceship, which in turn was serving a pretend function for a pretend warfleet, which in turn is pretendly besieging a pretend planet located within a pretend galaxy.

If I haven't made my point yet: go watch Return of the Jedi; we have sea battles in the "real world" at greater distances than the Battle of Endor. Comparing combat, technology, or even "common sense" from the real world to the things that have happened in the Star War universe (not to mention our nerdy little spinoff here at TRF) has got to be the least sensible thing I have ever heard one nerd try to justify to another.


And please, please, please: could we stop pretending the X-wing series is a valid source of information for the SW universe? Corran Horn is cool and all, but eventually you have to admit that somebody played too much X-wing vs TIE Fighter growing up . . . and then wrote a book about it . . . and then another one . . . and then another one . . .

Actually, I prefer the X-wing series to most of the Bantam-Era Books, if for nothing more than their reasonableness and continuity. Timothy Zahn's work is better, but that's about it. Maybe Tattooine Ghost, too, but that has problems of its own.

If it were me though, I'd still be arguing an accidental ram via hyperspace though.

Fine. Any ships that make the jump to lightspeed can fly through other ships. Whatever.

…you can’t simply excuse impossible actions by saying “Oh, but don’t worry, we won’t do it again”. That is absurd and insulting.

Fine. You can take out Reigns with two shots of your PL Battleship.

I did too! I never said I didn’t. I just have issues with some of the things he did. On the whole, the post was good.

It just had too many impossibilities that you just couldn't live with, work around or proceed forward with and requires massive rewrites. Yes, we get it.

I just want a good story where my technological uniqueness and faction in general is respected, and we get to blow shit up. Downplaying how awesome I am is frustrating.

Then rather than saying, "That's impossible, fuck you Wes, you tool!" Why don't you collaboratively say, "Wes, what you wrote should not work with my shit but, for the outcome you wanted [namely, minimal fucking signals being sent by fucking fighters], you could do this...(insert your helpful tip)."

Lightspeed and hyperspace are different concepts, terminology in a setting might make them sound the same though. My previous post describes a major difference among them though... in whatever thread that was. This isn't a problem with that though, we might as well be saying Wes rolled a natural 20 against Ahnk. He charged at Ahnks fleet and, by complete chance, rammed a major ship without knowing it was there or intent to do so. Next time I'm on Coruscant I'll fire a ballistic gun into the air and use trajectory and wind speed/direction to randomly take out a high ranking Imperial official.

Next time I'm on Coruscant I'll fire a ballistic gun into the air and use trajectory and wind speed/direction to randomly take out a high ranking Imperial official.

I'll take it if that means you are actually going to rp. Otherwise, meh.

just leave the "real world" out of it, because the real world has no bearing on the Force, hyperdrive, astromech droids, or the pretend deductions of a pretend person trying to pretend he accidentally blew up a pretend spaceship, which in turn was serving a pretend function for a pretend warfleet, which in turn is pretendly besieging a pretend planet located within a pretend galaxy

Comparing combat, technology, or even "common sense" from the real world to the things that have happened in the Star War universe (not to mention our nerdy little spinoff here at TRF) has got to be the least sensible thing I have ever heard one nerd try to justify to another

I've been up on my soapbox making the same proclimations for years Smarts.

Recalling now, "And if you get through to just one person..."

Sorry about that. I assumed you had more than that in the system, something like 20-30, considering the size of your fleet. That seemed reasonable, but I guess I was underestimating the actual power of these things. Still, without that impact, I pretty much have no post, because that chance happening is the basis of the whole post. I'll see if I can figure out a way to remedy that, but otherwise I would appreciate it if you would let it go - just RP that you have a couple extra shieldships.

But that's a big chunk of the problem.

No one wants to "let it go".

You didn't want to "let it go" and just run with your fleet getting in to a bit of a light-speed fender bender (note; I had all these heroic images of Wes in my head, knowing full well the dangers and ordering his course of action followed because, "Damn the torpedoes man. Coruscant is under siege!") and only after great debate did you go ahead with it.

Great work, by the way. Probably one of the best fleet-related posts (individually) that I have read in, literally, years. You know it's a hit when your reader can actually see the events unfolding in his minds eye. I thought it was totally bonus!

The only bones of contention I had, and since we're airing our opinions (like assholes; everyone has one... ) my only real beef is that two minor events took place in the span of your thread which, imho, should have taken a lot more deductive logic... not because I'm a Sci-Fi nerd about to argue the merits of imaginary imagination imaginings... but because I felt they hurt what was otherwise a bang up thread.

1. Wes arrives, his fleet gets a bit fuckered, and amidst all the chaos (keeping in mind he did not take the heroes stance and damn the torpedoes but came in thinking, "Damn, this will work!") his super-brilliant tacticians brain, again amidst all the other shit that is going down, that he thinks... thinks mind you (as if that's somehow okay, that he thinks it now so that next post he gets to know it. Semantic progression is bogus.) "Ah ha! As I was monitoring the gravitational data, when all my shit was blowing up, or at least one of my puny crew-men, what with their OUTSTANDING discipline, was watching this display at that moment when this happened and we just, amidst the noise and other shit going down, luckily in that fraction of time, that WE AFFECTED THEIR INTERDICTION!"

And then you make another, imho, silly jump.

This, to me, is the sort of thing that gets a one liner, and it's as subtle as subtle can be. Not, as you did it, as subtle as a brick coming through your window. It gets a hardly noticiable notation and then, posts down the line when they have already dealt with the priority, ie; counting your losses, assembling in to some sort of strategic formatiom, reading damage reports and all that other shit... then, only then, does some tech nerd, or Wes himself, put the pieces together.

And then he saves the day.

But you were so transparent about it. Like, as if anyone reading your post does NOT know that in your next post that 'thought' will become fact and used to your advantage.


2. Jamming.

Now it's my turn.

C'mon, Wes!

Do I really need to explain why this sucks?

It's... Jamming.

If it dosen't work, and you can circumvent it so damn easily, why bother at all?

It's like building a sail boat and then drilling holes in the hull and saying, "Well, I know a boat is supposed to float... I just wanted to get around that."

"Well, I know Jamming is supposed to jam... I just wanted to get around it with as little effort as possible..."

... so that next 'turn' I can kick some ass!




Other then those little quibbles, great post. And as I tend to ramble when I rant, you can safely assume that I went in to way more depth and made way less sense then I would have liked.


So, you see the light.

Your ships crash, at least some. And it's great!



But of course, that can't be enough.


Ahnk...

You know I love you, and you can tie me up and beat me for going against you (rawr!) but I just have to say it.

What is/are the Cre'Ar?

Are they a story device for the sake of Cataclysm?

Or...

Are they a faction, like any other?

Because your arguments seem contrary. You seem to be arguing that they are not just some regular faction, that for the sake of Cataclysm and changing the face of the Galaxy they are a powerful, incentive driven, plot device. Which has many benefits, which you have mentioned.

And then you state, by way of referencing how long you have been writing the Cree'Ar, and the demands of real life, and the demands of administration, how this and that is the case... as it would apply to a normal faction.

Which has me confused.

Perhaps the truth, for the sake of Cataclysm lies somewhere in between.

Because...

Downplaying how awesome I am is frustrating.

If the Cree'Ar are, for the sake of future arguments, a faction like any other (here in Cataclysm or anywhere else) then it's a good bet (as you know) that you'll have to argue for every inch and fight not to give up a centimeter.

But...

If, for Cataclysm, they are a plot device... they will have to be overcome. Flaws will have to be found, flaws will have to be exploited so that, in the end, we can all, "Win the day!"

V-Day!

Otherwise, treating them like a normal old faction and behaving as such, the Cree'Ar role in Cataclysm will continue until the galaxy is dominated. Or so I surmise.