My Most Recent Post
Posts: 602
  • Posted On: Oct 15 2009 5:32pm
As Ahnk has already accused me of godmoding, let me explain a few things:

1) The SS has no Reigns. Never has. Wes doesn't particularly like them. Since Ahnk mentioned Reigns, and a 100+ ship force, and since the SS is inherently a smaller force (only 60 or so capital ships in this task force), I simply added that Kach had lent me part of the Borderland fleet, which we had talked about doing anyway. So when I mention that Borderland Reigns intercept the large ships Ahnk sends against my fleet, that is simply in keeping both with his post and my understanding of the situation.

2) The ships that I mentioned being destroyed is 25% of the SS fleet currently here. You can assume that approximately 25% of whatever part of Kach's fleet was with me was destroyed as well. The fact that I lost some of those ships by them crashing into your ships is simply reasonable and mentioned by Simon. Additionally, it highlights another of the dangers of jumping through hyperspace without safeties - you might overshoot the jump point. That's what those ships did - one luckily didn't hit anything, but was destroyed anyway, and the other hit one of the biggest targets in your fleet, a shieldship. Not unreasonable. The fact that the sensors on the ISD-V Tyrant picked up the gravity fluxuation was standard. That Wes's officers, and Wes, noticed it, was simply being right place, right time. Even if that were not true, it is a reasonable assumption for Wes to make that the big ships are the ones causing problems. It's not like they're hidden. And notice he ignores the "little ship" Arbiters that are making the wormholes.

3) Gravity shielding. Wes sees the lasers disappear. His reasoning is that no ship has enough power to have ray shields that powerful and have good particle shields. So he fires missiles. He sees the missiles get pulled this way and that. The only things he knows that could do that are tractor beams and gravity. But tractor beams don't explain the laser disappearance. So he assumes (not me, he) gravity shielding.

4) Jamming. You specifically said that you were jamming by broadcasting numbers, and lots of them. Wes's techs, instead of trying to fight the jamming, worked with it and started injecting binary code (which is numbers) into the numbers you were using. SS fighters, since they contain at least one astromech each, can pick out those numbers from the jamming, since they are in a pattern and code the astromechs recognize as being an SS code/pattern, and they can then turn that code into orders for the fighters. It's not very efficient, it's slow, and it can be inaccurate, so only broad sweeping orders are used. The SS pilots are trained to be individualistic anyway, to fight as squadrons and as wings, and even as individuals, with a great deal of autonomy, so such orders give them all they need.
Posts: 5387
  • Posted On: Oct 15 2009 6:17pm
Wes Vos
As Ahnk has already accused me of godmoding, let me explain a few things:


I'm all ears.

Wes Vos
1) The SS has no Reigns. Never has. Wes doesn't particularly like them. Since Ahnk mentioned Reigns, and a 100+ ship force, and since the SS is inherently a smaller force (only 60 or so capital ships in this task force), I simply added that Kach had lent me part of the Borderland fleet, which we had talked about doing anyway.


That's my mistake, and I apologize.

Wes Vos
So when I mention that Borderland Reigns intercept the large ships Ahnk sends against my fleet, that is simply in keeping both with his post and my understanding of the situation.


That's reasonable and I take no issue with it.

Wes Vos
2) The ships that I mentioned being destroyed is 25% of the SS fleet currently here. You can assume that approximately 25% of whatever part of Kach's fleet was with me was destroyed as well. The fact that I lost some of those ships by them crashing into your ships is simply reasonable and mentioned by Simon.


A point I disagreed with because it's contradictory to the way I interdict systems.

Wes Vos
Additionally, it highlights another of the dangers of jumping through hyperspace without safeties - you might overshoot the jump point. That's what those ships did - one luckily didn't hit anything, but was destroyed anyway, and the other hit one of the biggest targets in your fleet, a shieldship. Not unreasonable.


Yes, completely unreasonable. The shield ships are placed at the very rear of my fleet for a reason; because they are the most vulnerable and most important support vessel I have. My light cruisers and fighters are fast enough to redeploy to defend them if need be but most Imperial cruisers would lack the speed to maneuver to assault them.

You didn't assault them. You jumped into them.

So let me get this straight. By sheer coincidence, you manage to overjump your plotted trajectory and sail past an entire armada of my ships, conveniently slamming into my most valuable target, completely by accident?

Implausible.

For one thing, there's the fact that you would be pulled out of hyperspace well before you reached my fleet. But let's go with Omnae's ruling and say you can fly through my interdiction field. He said that, so fine. The chances of you miraculously missing every single ship, gravity generation, explosion, wormhole, and chaos of a space battle, to hit the prime target I keep deliberately as far back from the actual battle itself as possible, are absurd. Utterly absurd. Astronomically impossible. I refuse to accept that.

Wes Vos
The fact that the sensors on the ISD-V Tyrant picked up the gravity fluxuation was standard. That Wes's officers, and Wes, noticed it, was simply being right place, right time. Even if that were not true, it is a reasonable assumption for Wes to make that the big ships are the ones causing problems. It's not like they're hidden. And notice he ignores the "little ship" Arbiters that are making the wormholes.


For one thing, every single ship I have is generating gravity. You destroying a ship and noticing the gravity field changing is plausible, and if you had, say, destroyed my interdictors and noticed you came up green for hyperspace on some of your ships before the field shifted, I could work with that. My issue is related to the above. You essentially went from "Hai 2 u guyz" having never seen us before to magically putting together all the pieces to lead yourself to total victory in the span of less than a post.

And you wonder why no one ever replied to TNO in battles before.

Wes Vos
3) Gravity shielding. Wes sees the lasers disappear. His reasoning is that no ship has enough power to have ray shields that powerful and have good particle shields. So he fires missiles. He sees the missiles get pulled this way and that. The only things he knows that could do that are tractor beams and gravity. But tractor beams don't explain the laser disappearance. So he assumes (not me, he) gravity shielding.


This was reasonable, and I took no issues with it. The "well of course the big ships are doing it!" is a huge stretch though and I DO take issue with that.

Wes Vos
4) Jamming. You specifically said that you were jamming by broadcasting numbers, and lots of them. Wes's techs, instead of trying to fight the jamming, worked with it and started injecting binary code (which is numbers) into the numbers you were using. SS fighters, since they contain at least one astromech each, can pick out those numbers from the jamming, since they are in a pattern and code the astromechs recognize as being an SS code/pattern, and they can then turn that code into orders for the fighters. It's not very efficient, it's slow, and it can be inaccurate, so only broad sweeping orders are used. The SS pilots are trained to be individualistic anyway, to fight as squadrons and as wings, and even as individuals, with a great deal of autonomy, so such orders give them all they need.


This is just impossible however.
Posts: 602
  • Posted On: Oct 15 2009 6:40pm
Ahnk Rashanagok
Yes, completely unreasonable. The shield ships are placed at the very rear of my fleet for a reason; because they are the most vulnerable and most important support vessel I have. My light cruisers and fighters are fast enough to redeploy to defend them if need be but most Imperial cruisers would lack the speed to maneuver to assault them.

You didn't assault them. You jumped into them.

So let me get this straight. By sheer coincidence, you manage to overjump your plotted trajectory and sail past an entire armada of my ships, conveniently slamming into my most valuable target, completely by accident?

Implausible.

For one thing, there's the fact that you would be pulled out of hyperspace well before you reached my fleet. But let's go with Omnae's ruling and say you can fly through my interdiction field. He said that, so fine. The chances of you miraculously missing every single ship, gravity generation, explosion, wormhole, and chaos of a space battle, to hit the prime target I keep deliberately as far back from the actual battle itself as possible, are absurd. Utterly absurd. Astronomically impossible. I refuse to accept that.
I guess I'm still confused as to how exactly the ships are deployed. Are they towards Coruscant? Away from it? Are the shieldships in the center of your fleet? Because that is very relevant to this post. Coming out of hyperspace, one ship of mine hit one ship of yours. Since your shieldships are the second biggest target out there (other than your superweapons), I figured that would be the most likely ship to get hit.

Additionally, the overshooting of the jump point is actually the biggest risk I took in disabling the safeties. If you pull the lever one second too late, you're likely to hit something. In this case, it came out of hyperspace too close to your fleet and slammed into one of your big ships before it could stop.


For one thing, every single ship I have is generating gravity. You destroying a ship and noticing the gravity field changing is plausible, and if you had, say, destroyed my interdictors and noticed you came up green for hyperspace on some of your ships before the field shifted, I could work with that. My issue is related to the above. You essentially went from "Hai 2 u guyz" having never seen us before to magically putting together all the pieces to lead yourself to total victory in the span of less than a post.

And you wonder why no one ever replied to TNO in battles before.
Actually, from your R&D's, I thought the shieldships were the only ones that could generate gravity. You specifically stated that without the shieldships, all your ships were vulnerable because they lacked shielding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what I got from your R&Ds.

Oh, and by the way, Wes has seen you before, or at least a recording of you. Kach shared his intel with Wes at their meeting, and he had a recording of at least part of the battle over Yaga Minor. Not much to go on, but it does say something.



This was reasonable, and I took no issues with it. The "well of course the big ships are doing it!" is a huge stretch though and I DO take issue with that.
The "The big ships are doing it" is simply noting that Wes thinks that only large ships can carry gravity well projectors. Since the shieldships are the second biggest in your fleet, it makes sense that he would think that they would be the ones creating the interdictor field or at least the gravity shielding.



This is just impossible however.
Huh? How is it impossible? We're basically using your method of jamming against you. That's why most ships, when they jam, use straight static - it's very hard to beat.
Posts: 5387
  • Posted On: Oct 15 2009 6:58pm
I guess I'm still confused as to how exactly the ships are deployed. Are they towards Coruscant? Away from it? Are the shieldships in the center of your fleet? Because that is very relevant to this post. Coming out of hyperspace, one ship of mine hit one ship of yours. Since your shieldships are the second biggest target out there (other than your superweapons), I figured that would be the most likely ship to get hit.


Other than the Parrow Lin vessels present they are our biggest ship, yes.

As was dolled over and over, the majority of the Imperial fleet is between my fleet and the planet. The shield ships are towards the back, so you'd need to fly more or less through my entire fleet in order to "accidentally" destroy one.

Actually, from your R&D's, I thought the shieldships were the only ones that could generate gravity.


No.

You specifically stated that without the shieldships, all your ships were vulnerable because they lacked shielding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what I got from your R&Ds.


For the most part, true; I do have a few ships which can generate shields of their own. The Shield Ship is the only ship capable of creating the gravity on the scale and energy level required to create a shield against weapons as such, but it is not the only vessel which generates gravity. Most of our ships manipulate gravity or modulate it in some way. But only the shield ship generates gravity for shielding.

The "The big ships are doing it" is simply noting that Wes thinks that only large ships can carry gravity well projectors.


The Immobilizer 418 is 600 meters; Loronar Strike Cruisers, which can be interdictors, are less than 500. I have several ship classes present over 800 meters.

This is using OOC knowledge IC. I call BS.

Huh? How is it impossible? We're basically using your method of jamming against you. That's why most ships, when they jam, use straight static - it's very hard to beat.


It is impossible.

What you're basically talking about is akin to putting a person in a room with several thousand speakers. On each of these speakers a different voice is reading a different, seemingly random, stream of numbers. You then come in with your speaker and have it play a series of numbers, and you expect your droids to be able to differentiate one set of numbers from another?

Our computer networks are comprised of millions of neural processing centers that span several galaxies; the ability to compute numerical sequences is unmatched. You, meanwhile, have some droids, and in addition to combat maneuvers, ship maintenance, systems analyses, and the various functions it is actually capable of doing, you want it to sift through an unending chain of numbers sent to it, at real time, ceaselessly since you arrived, and pick out patterns?

It's not possible and I call BS on that too.
Posts: 5387
  • Posted On: Oct 15 2009 7:20pm
Also;

Send another message to all fighter wings. Have them target those smaller ships, the corvette analogs.


WE DON'T HAVE ANY FUCKING CORVETTE ANALOGS. EVERYTHING WE DO IS DIGITAL. HIGH DEFINITION. GOD.

PS: I actually liked your post, aside from the issues I have raised, I enjoyed it.
Posts: 602
  • Posted On: Oct 15 2009 7:25pm
Ahnk Rashanagok
Other than the Parrow Lin vessels present they are our biggest ship, yes.

As was dolled over and over, the majority of the Imperial fleet is between my fleet and the planet. The shield ships are towards the back, so you'd need to fly more or less through my entire fleet in order to "accidentally" destroy one.



No.
And, as I say again, I am not with the rest of the Imperial fleet. Therefore, if you are aligned towards them, I am coming in at a different angle, which means it is possible and even probable. At the least, I am at 90 degrees in relation to them and you, and at best it's 180 degrees. Either way, or anywhere in between, and it is probable.



For the most part, true; I do have a few ships which can generate shields of their own. The Shield Ship is the only ship capable of creating the gravity on the scale and energy level required to create a shield against weapons as such, but it is not the only vessel which generates gravity. Most of our ships manipulate gravity or modulate it in some way. But only the shield ship generates gravity for shielding.
I think we're on the same page here. But yes, what you said is what Wes postulated. Note that it was just a theory until he fired his missiles. It's still a theory, at least until those scout TIEs finish their scanning run, if they do. But it's a working theory for now.


The Immobilizer 418 is 600 meters; Loronar Strike Cruisers, which can be interdictors, are less than 500. I have several ship classes present over 800 meters.

This is using OOC knowledge IC. I call BS.
Oops. I forgot about them. I'm thinking standard Interdictors, which were large cruisers. Additionally, to create a field as big as the one you're claiming, or gravity shielding like you have, it would take a big ship, or a lot of them, actually. Again, it's a working theory for Wes. He doesn't know it.



It is impossible.

What you're basically talking about is akin to putting a person in a room with several thousand speakers. On each of these speakers a different voice is reading a different, seemingly random, stream of numbers. You then come in with your speaker and have it play a series of numbers, and you expect your droids to be able to differentiate one set of numbers from another?

Our computer networks are comprised of millions of neural processing centers that span several galaxies; the ability to compute numerical sequences is unmatched. You, meanwhile, have some droids, and in addition to combat maneuvers, ship maintenance, systems analyses, and the various functions it is actually capable of doing, you want it to sift through an unending chain of numbers sent to it, at real time, ceaselessly since you arrived, and pick out patterns?

It's not possible and I call BS on that too.

If you want to get into that, I have to ask where your 5000 word RPs are for all those multi-galactic holdings you have. Otherwise, I will call BS on your "computer networks comprised of millions of neural processing centers that span several galxies." That's akin to me saying, "We have all the shipyards, so we have the best ships, therefore we win all battles." (I admit, some TNOers have done that before - I have always thought that was dumb). I don't mind you having the holdings for storyline purposes - but please don't use them in fleet threads. It's not fair to those of us who put work in on taking planets for resources.

And actually, yes, they would be. A scan for patterns in jamming such as this would be standard procedure, since it would be looking for ways to crack the jamming codes. Additionally, the droid would have to be on alert for any attempts by the commanders to crack the jamming or break through it. And like I said, this process is slow, cumbersome, and pretty much useless for more than basic commands (go here, do this, etc.). It allows basic ship-to-fighter communication, essentially the same signals that would be sent through light signals, but without the necessity of line of sight or visibility.
Posts: 602
  • Posted On: Oct 15 2009 7:29pm
And thanks for the compliment on the post. I had hoped it was of good enough quality to pass muster, though with all the writing I've had to do recently, the writing juices in my brain are spinning in a thousand different directions, so it's hard to know if what I'm writing is actually good or not.
Posts: 5387
  • Posted On: Oct 15 2009 7:30pm
Again, you seem to think the Cree'Ar just popped up yesterday. The Cree'Ar predate TRF itself. Our original group was allowed to have things that went above and beyond canon because - something you guys at TNO have some issues grasping - having huge numbers of shit does not make you interesting.
Posts: 2915
  • Posted On: Oct 15 2009 7:43pm
I'm more concerned that your ships use levers Wes...
Posts: 5387
  • Posted On: Oct 15 2009 8:05pm
How else would you propose to open the coal valves!?