Given that the only subfaction discussed in the meeting was the Onyxian CW, yes, the others were excluded.
:)
...actually, I take that back. We did discuss the Confederation. But then they went and stabbed the Coalition in the back so I don't see how they are anybody's friends right now.
We might have discussed the other subfactions if we thought we could annex their asses too... alas.
We're getting bogged down into exact details. When we get into detail this much, there are bound to be mistakes and misunderstandings, especially when two sides are playing competitively. I think we're letting competition getting in the way of what could potentially be a very interesting, and well-written, story with end results which are agreeable to both sides.
Everyone knows IC that TNO dominates everything, but I don't think that should translate into OOC actions and demands. The two should not be confused. Is this an actual community where writers learn and grow? Or is it TNO(Omnae) continuing to beat down the Coalition mercilessly? (because that's such an unrivalled accomplishment). Pretty soon, a good portion of anyone not in TNO is going to disappear (who wants to put work into a dead future?) simply because of this behavior. And what will be left? A semi-active TNO with a few veterans occasionally popping in to post? I suppose that is a community, but not a very vibrant one. TRF would be a shell of its former self.
Forgive and forget. People make mistakes, and it's not only the Coalition (regardless of who's right or wrong in this case).
Take Telan's Glorificus Laureola - Mitigo Democracia for example (I'm not meaning to pick on you, Telan, but it's the first thing that comes to mind). It's an interesting, and well-written story about the Grand Admiral chasing down rogue Onyxian ships. But there are some minor IC detail flaws. For example, the Onyxian Commonwealth has never used Dominator-class Heavy Cruisers from what I have read. Those are Cren ships, and are sometimes used in the mainstream Coalition Navy. Same thing goes for the Claymores involved.
Once more, Telan then begins to write for the entire Onyxian navy beginning to demobilize. Thing is, according to the Decree issued by the Emperor Hyfe, those Onyxian ships were free to leave for Coalition space. Moreover, Smarts had already RPed the Onyxian ships beginning to gear and leave before Telan has posted. Hence, Telan's later posts disagree with what was written previously. Supposing Telan tries to edit his story for detail content correctness, there isn't going to be much left. The chase, the daring attacks and actions by the warships, the cunning Hatsumura's report; all gone.
Do I think Telan's story should be editted, or just basically scrapped? Of course not. That would be a waste of time and a loss of a good piece of writing. I enjoyed it myself; especially with Telan introducing Captain Dobrotvorsky, a native of one of my planets that I created.
Point is, we all make mistakes.
And Om, I think your making judgements of the relationship between the Coalition and the Confederation is somewhat ridiculous. We parted on reasonably good terms, and we still planned to work friendly with each other on some things. This is one of them. The only people qualified to make such judgements when the split is some ambiguous in detail are the people within those factions. They reasonably detail the new relationship within the context.
Just my 2 cents.
EDIT:
I guess what I'm trying to say is don't be like Drayson and myself in the H&G thread. Don't try and beat each other to death with logic and details. Learn from our mistakes.
Try and come up with a compromise, or better yet, a synergy solution to this mess. Not for the sake of the Coalition or TNO, but for the sake of the community as a whole. So we don't discourage people from joining or from being active.
Damnit! No, the fault is mine - in my zeal to end my period of IC inadequacy, I fell upon the first story that came to mind and just wrote and wrote. Continuity was tossed to the wind.
When I said demobilized, I meant disappeared - transferred to GC space. I think I can edit in sufficiently sliced material. Perhaps something on the order that before the fleet arrived, probe droids were immediately dispatched to Onyxian space to monitor the fleet's exodus - IC prudence would demand we know the ships are going were we say and not just vanishing - and then these ships reported as not having set a course in step with their peers. Would that be amenable???
I was a little put out by the whole 2 week thing but it's not an insurmountable problem and one I am willing to concede was not directly stated IC until Telan's rp.
TNO could be pricks about it and simply cut off the time period at Day 9 (14 days after annexation) and according to our own timetable, we'd be right (after all, it is a time table set by TNO). But really.... what for?
I am not advocating screwing up Smart's rp just because. Again, I said I would edit out the whole "into the second week" of the evac time anyway.
This also would directly change our "transmission" to Confederation personnel because I feel that in the first week, TNO would not be aware of the break of the Confederation from the Coalition and so there would not be this "diplomatic incident waiting to happen" as yet.
As for Smarts destroying Imperial property. This may be addressed at a later date in another rp. In what manner and exactly how I cannot say because I haven't really given it thought. But I wanted to let him at least be aware of the chance that there can (and might) be accountability rather than simply blindsiding him with it like I might do with another veteran.
All in all, our getting "technical" was simply our way of backing our individual opinions and it's not something I personally balk at. I sometimes enjoy seeing where others are coming from (though sometimes I don't want to know where their minds have been).
I haven't had opportunity yet to revise the post but it will be revised by Saturday as I promised Beff to write a post for the Space Between.
I do have this one bit of advice for Smarts. I don't mean it as an Administrator to member or as someone who thinks so highly of themselves that he has Telan groupies hanging around... but as a roleplayer to roleplayer:
If you must roleplay with the planets of another faction, you have to be at least mentally prepared for an interuption. Your "plan" cannot be so rigid that it cannot survive such contact or cannot at least account for it. If your roleplay thread is going to go to pieces or cannot handle the abrupt change in direction (or if you cannot handle it) then I would not venture near the competitive part of roleplaying here.
Take this as you will or disregard at your pleasure. But the thought behind this advice was the comment at how a simple change in a few IC days derails and throws your whole rescue plan out the window.
Already the thought of transporting millions of people from multiple worlds in a two week window is daunting with a success-rate that is questionable. That was the idea behind the arbitrary 2 weeks so it's not meant to be an easy time with transports leisurely moving back and forth in and out of the OZ.
Another thing to keep in mind as well: The OOC placement of posts does not dictate the IC timeframe.
Corise:
Not being argumentative here but just offering thoughts..
1. Coalition ships can be used by any faction within the Coalition. 2. Cren ships were in the service of the CW fleet (during the build up and attack on Bilbringi). There may be some still around. 3. Claymore R&D: "..the Claymore is designed to serve as the standard battleship of the entire coalition..."
You have a point there. Unless some units remain (opting not to leave CW, personal reasons or whatnot) I cannot see a move to talk about demobilization.
1. Only those ships that stand down could leave. 2. It is possible some CW fleet elements decide not to stand down and still Burn with Righteous Anger thus leading to Telan's chase. I've rp'd a Coalition Vicstar getting the better of two TNO Imperators, still rescue prisoners and still avoid a courtmartial.
The point?
Details that do not affect the body politic of TRF at large are subject to the whims of storytelling. I always find it funny that Coalition spies always seem to happen on some noble yet innocent bloke getting the crap beaten out of them by some wayward TNO jailor or soldier.
In any event, I think your point is aimed at me wanting to change Smart's rp? I have not asked him to do anything of the kind.
No offense, but In my opinion, Logan, yourself and Beff have damaged the Coalition far more effectively than I ever could. I could only kill the people making it up. You have killed the idea...
The sardonic answer would be: if you call such parting, while the Coalition is losing the East and the West simultaneously in what will probably be known as it's darkest hour, reasonably good terms... I suppose so.
You don't need to be qualified to make judgements. You only need to be qualified to have them be true. And yes, what Dolash and you write will be the truth of the situation.
Do I cast the event of the Confederation "breaking" from the Coalition in a bad light? Hell yes! It's fun and it's all we've got until the "truth" of the matter comes out (whether confirming our judgement or not). So we make the most of it!
In the Galaxy at Large in TRF, there are (in my opinion) 4 major situations that are affecting the community and galaxy as a whole (currently):
1. Onyxian Occupation Zone
The fall of the Coalition West with the defeat of the Onyxian Fleet and the annexation of CW will reset the stage in this area of space. Will this area become a hotbed for the Rebellion (if it ever gets off the ground)? With Smarts evacuating everyone, will anyone be around to support the Rebellion but dust bunnies and prairie dogs? Will this occupation be like US occupation of Iraq? Or will it be yet another jumping off point for Imperial Expansion?
2. Confederation breaking from Coalition
Will this be like the Confederate States of America breaking from the Union? Will this spell the end of the Coalition? Will democracy fail when the going gets tough? Is it rebellion? Is it recognized by Coalition government? Will Regrad and Co. fight to keep themselves whole?
Right now, the state of the Confederation is in flux. The Empire cannot recognize it as a legal separate entity until one of two things happen: Coalition allows the split IC or TNO and Confederation reach a separate accord. This latter point is dangerous and of concern to the Empire because how the Empire deals with supposedly breakaways from the Coalition and others is how they should reasonably expect said powers to deal with those who breakaway from TNO (if they are able).
This could set a dangerous precident indeed.
Alot of questions and diplomacy in the middle of this situation.
OOC Dolash and Corise may be on good terms and all. OOC Dolash and I are on good terms and our factions hate each other. Goes to show OOC affectations do not play sometimes in IC.
Still, there is a general feeling that the Coalition IC will allow the breakaway which then would dispell the speculation from the Imperial quarter about rebellion, traitors and such. But then the Coalition will have to redefine itself for if it becomes a club where everyone can come and go as they please, with no central authority or commonality, it might as well be dead.
And there is the very simple matter of how can the Confederation keep their status as a competing front-runner as hope of the galaxy if they cannot keep their word to those that do not mean them harm? What happens if a Confederation world up an declares independence without so much as a "by your leave"? If that ever happened...
Can other powers trust them? They may be turning into yet another version of the Empire...
3. Gestalt Colonies breaking from Coalition
The same issues as with the Confederation breaking. Only the Colonies are less publicly exposed and this situation will determine how the Coalition (should it survive these 'breakings') and the Commonwealth (VC/Hapes/Capricia) interact with each other.
The Commonwealth giving independent recognition to Gestalt is like Britian giving recognition to the Confederate States of America. If that had happened, history might have played out differently. How will history play out between Coalition and Gestalt and Commonwealth?
What is more poignant about this situation over the Confederation's is that the Coalition's perspective will be featured in the persona of Viryn Quell if Dolash ever gets around to it. How this plays out may be an indicator as to how the situation with the Confederation will play out.
If Gestalt and Commonwealth join, can the Commonwealth trust Gestalt that they will not break as they did with the Coalition? Or will Gestalt go on it's own?
4. Exodus of the Coalition East in the face of the Black Dragon Empire
The slumbering giant has been awakened and Claymores and Azguards flee from it's path. Still, there are those who are on the front lines working to save lives (Mon Calamari) and the compressing of the Eastern Forces along a narrowing front may provide the best chance to halt the impending Dragon advance and save the central core of the Coalition. But will it survive the loss of the West, the Confederation and the Colonies?
Democracy's light is still shining defiantly amid personal tragedies...
Tentative 5th.... Palestar.
This is up to Dolash & Co.
While TNO may be an unquestioned powerhouse, it does not represent the true dynamic of storytelling or of storytelling possibilities exclusively at TRF. In my opinion, the reason that perhaps people don't see this is because they aren't giving themselves enough credit.
Interesting point, Om. But where TNO is concerned I dare say that it is not simply a matter of people not giving themselves enough credit, but rather that TNO gives itself so bloody much one cannot help but feel overwhelmed by this self-adoration and paradigm where by the status quo is TNO.
But this has been the case, the very root of the argument that has been raging for neigh on two years now with naught but even the slightest progress made.
Om, it's not a matter of consideration, it's a matter of observation.
Others come and go, some with less frequency and devotion then others, but what we can all agree on is that the one constant force behind TNO is yourself in the guise of Simon Kaine.
Please, I do not mean to belittle the contributions of others as, of those writers - I have immeasurable levels of respect for their achievements in the past. But the fact remains fairly well rooted in truth that aside from yourself, TNO has no consistency to speak of save for it's continued domination of the Galaxy. Telan and Drayson tend to stick fairly close to home, which is nice, but even they defer (in public if not private) to your wisdom constantly which begs the question; who is TNO?
Would anyone have argued that, for quite some time, that Dolash was singularly The GC? No, not really. Much as in the case of TNO one could make an argument against that stance, but it would be a tenuous one at best. To that end he has constantly taken "the blame" for the Light Side sucking ass.
You are easily among the most skilled writers, planners and plotters at TRF. Of this no one has any doubt - but you also exemplify that paragon of achievement that has allowed TNO to retian dominance for years and years so it seems a logical assumption that, over time, there would be a level of resentment attached to that perception.
Does the responsibility (for TNO) lie in your hands? Maybe not, but I hope you can forgive the perception that it does given the cow-towing that goes on whenever TNO'ers discuss. (Simon is god, I defer to his wisdom. Om knows all. Kneel before Zod.)
It's all connected.
I'm sorry, I truly am, if there has been a tone of disrespect, ambivilance or out right anger in these discussions. That was not my intention and while I cannot speak for others, I would hope the same.
That said; TNO continues to dominate the Galaxy In and Out of Character. You continue to dominate TNO. The logical conclusion that you are TNO and TNO is the Root Of All Evil, there for you are the Root Of All Evil is questionable at best but I hope you can understand where that so-called logic stems from.
I adore and respect you. I do not, in turn, respect and adore TNO. The two are not mutually exclusive so please, forgive the emerging tonality on my part (as I cannot speak for others) where by I have demonstrated a growing animosity towards TNO.
