Wes' Worst Nightmare!!
Posts: 896
  • Posted On: Nov 7 2008 3:37am
Taja Loraan
Good riddance.


ughs, this statement is utter disgusting that I can't even begin to comprehend how someone can be so stupid as to say this... what are you? Anti-military?
Posts: 1272
  • Posted On: Nov 7 2008 3:41am
Taja Loraan
Good riddance.


Good riddance to the two things that have ensured this country is safe from those that what to harm us and protects the right of free speech that you have obviously taken advantage of here?

What have you been consuming? I want to be sure I avoid it....
Posts: 602
  • Posted On: Nov 7 2008 3:59am
Gro
Wes: If people make decisions and have to live with them, and you support that ideal set, then America gets to live with Obama for better or worse.

No argument there.

The America of today is not the America your founders envisioned. Heck, one of the reasons they rebelled against Britain was because they didn't want a system where they get bills at credit to a central bank. Guess what you've got?

That doesn't make what we have right.

I'm guessing since almost all of them owned slaves they wouldn't be fans of this all men created equal thing and so forth.

Actually, most of them didn't own slaves, and if they did they viewed it as a type of work-for-room-and-board thing. Of course, slavery is morally wrong on its face, but since Jefferson was the one who penned the words, "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights," I think they would agree with that principle.

And since they came from a different time when women were considered vastly inferior they'd disapprove of any woman holding a position of power.

And I'm not saying that everything they did was correct. What I am saying is that the broad principles upon which they founded this country remain true.

Wes, what I'm saying is stop talking about 'The America envisioned by the Founders' since that America is two hundred years old and had no idea what the modern world would be like. It was a vision made in a time with less ability to communicate, most of the population couldn't read, and they were trying to escape the most powerful nation in the world. The global dynamic has changed, and though you may seek to maintain some principals, they're not the same. To presume to think like them in this entirely new world is either arrogance or ignorance.

The best you can do is what America needs based on its circumstances and the world around it. Todays America is despised around the world, and just took a heavy blow leaving many to wonder if America will be the economic super power once the dust settles.

And guess what? It needs someone like Obama that's viewed as a 'Change Reboot' so that other nations in the world won't just think you're a bunch of self-centred dicks.

It is here we get to the crux of the difference between us. First, I do not believe that truth changes over time, or from place to place, or from person to person. It is not dependant on circumstances or anything else. Truth is truth. Period. It does not change; it is absolute. I do presume to think like the founders, for it is they who wrote the document upon which our country is based. The Constitution is to be the supreme law of the land; no law is to contradict it unless that law comes in the form of an Amendment to the Constitution. The global dynamic may have changed, but truth, and the Constitution, have not.

Personally, I could care less what the rest of the world thinks. Right is right, no matter who or how many disagree. America did take a heavy blow, based on the greed of a number of homeowners and lenders. The problem was when the government tried to stick its dirty fingers into the problem to try to fix it. It should have let them bear the consequences of their actions.

Again, let the other nations of the world think what they want. Everyone always hates the most powerful nation until that nation is gone. Then they wish they had it back. Were it not for America, the entire world would be Communist and speaking Russian, Israel would be obliterated by Iran, and the people of Iraq would still be suffering under a cruel despot who murdered his own people. Hate us if you want, but recognize that we fill a vital role in this world. If we do not serve as the policeman, someone else will, and the best candidates are Russia and China. No thank you.
Posts: 1200
  • Posted On: Nov 7 2008 6:24am
First, I do not believe that truth changes over time, or from place to place, or from person to person. It is not dependant on circumstances or anything else. Truth is truth. Period. It does not change; it is absolute.



It is also not as self-evident as many people might believe.


I hated the bailout plan, and fully believe that those who make bad decisions should live with the consequences of those decisions. If you spend beyond your means, and you get burned for it, then you got burned. That's your problem, not the government's.


Unfortunately, at this level, when the banking executives made their greedy, bad decisions, it was everyone else who was going to get burned... not the banking executives with the 20 million retirement bonuses.

I believe in accountability, but I also feel that innocent people who put their money and investments into a financial institution should not lose everything because of the greed of a few.


I believe that man has a free will, and that yes, Obama's election somehow fits into the plan of God.


It's funny how all men are created equal, but God somehow loves Americans more than any other human.

It's funny how there is this thing called freedom of religion but if anyone other than a psuedo-christian runs for office, if any law is passed that offends the sensibilities (term used loosely) of a single religion, they are branded the anti-christ, (I actually had this old man sit at my desk a few days ago telling me he firmly believed the world was going to end in 2012 and that Obama was the anti-christ), a terrorist and that there are dark days ahead.

Because everyone can have freedom of religion. Just as long as that religion is pseudo-christianity and that this Constitution for all men created equal is made to protect that singular dogma.

Sorry.. just saw the Proposition 8 results earlier..



The idea of separation of church and state is there for a reason.



America did take a heavy blow, based on the greed of a number of homeowners and lenders. The problem was when the government tried to stick its dirty fingers into the problem to try to fix it.


This is the function of government after all.


Again, let the other nations of the world think what they want. Everyone always hates the most powerful nation until that nation is gone. Then they wish they had it back.


Not if you are the second most powerful nation in the world... Something new always comes along. Who mourns for Rome anymore?


Were it not for America, the entire world would be Communist and speaking Russian,


Because China is communist and speaks Russian..


Israel would be obliterated by Iran



Since Iran is obviously listening to America regarding the enrichment of uranium...


Hate us if you want, but recognize that we fill a vital role in this world.


Even if it is a modern role that is not recognized by the Constitution and we cannot have that. For a man once said: "The Constitution is to be the supreme law of the land; no law is to contradict it unless that law comes in the form of an Amendment to the Constitution. The global dynamic may have changed, but truth, and the Constitution, have not."


If we do not serve as the policeman, someone else will, and the best candidates are Russia and China.


It's kind of hard to police the world when all the policemen are in two countries. You kind of lose sight of those other 'little' atrocities called genocides elsewhere.

In policing the world, if that is what the US has been doing, it has done a piss-poor job.


The only thing that really frightens me with Obama being in office is the up and coming 25% budget cut to the entire military and intelligence services.


Yeah, but unless the conflict is kept alive indefinitely, the armed forces would eventually be scaled down. It always happens after war. Perhaps it's enough if they can come back to their loved ones safe.


I just wish there was a better economy for them to come back too. I am sure they'll have some cool stories when we're in the bread line together...
Posts: 573
  • Posted On: Nov 7 2008 9:14am
Slaskia, darling, I'm not from the US, so you can shove it. I'm not inclined to shed disillusioned tears over your ability to engage in free speech when your country's actions via the military and intelligence have infringed upon the basic rights of the citizens of so many other nations. If the cutback holds any promise of at least lessening the attacks on those regions, then GOOD FUCKING RIDDANCE, I say. Why the hell should I have to censor my opinions of dissent and cower behind the fear of automatically being labelled a "terrorist" ? Or is free speech a commodity only Americans are permitted ?

Simon's right. If you're so intent on playing the role of the gods of this world, then go fix some of its real problems, rather than obliterating countries subjugated under the leadership of a "ruthless dictator" that, ironically, you yourselves are responsible for having trained. But no, wait, then what would happen to all that oil ? Gasp, oh noes !

Btw, I'm highly curious. With all the money you've been pumping into your intelligence services and whatnot: any progress on tracking down that devilishly elusive Osama yet ?
Posts: 2558
  • Posted On: Nov 7 2008 11:48am
To the military: Many sign a term of service of about 8 years. Guess how long it's been since the wars in the middle east started? About 8 years. Really, the cut backs won't be cutting a lot of jobs per say, it's just if they begin to withdraw they won't need the soldiers. Raising an army for a war then reducing it afterward is, as mentioned earlier, a very common practice.

Yes, some permanent positions and programs will be cut. Don't get me wrong. But it seems that most of it shall just be phasing out positions for a peacetime not just an immediate 'GTFO'. They'll still have the armour, the guns, and the tanks sitting in an armoury if anything happens and they can't go peace time.

Wes: If you believe you are infallible, congrats, you're a facist which makes you as bad as many of the doctrines you claim to protect us from. It means only you can be right, and everyone else is wrong.

I'm sorry, but when you said 'Fie to the world, yay America' you become concerned only on yourselves and YOUR doctrine. Then it is no longer the freedom that you are proudly branding but rather the same freedom offered by the 'Liberation of communism' that Russia used to offer. It makes you the bullies which is why the world hates America. The world is not black and white with one true system.

Monarchy has worked wonders for England, the dictatorship in Iraq was working, and communism worked in taking all those splintered warring factions in China and making a powerful unified force for the first time since the Boxer Rebellion.

Remember this Wes: Facism will come to America wrapped in the flag and bearing the cross.

*wishes the British Empire would come back*
Posts: 1621
  • Posted On: Nov 7 2008 1:52pm
Fascism is not necessarily a bad thing. It's primary tenants are socialized programs paid for a government monopoly on one or a few industries, the rest being privately run; strong centralized government protecting the people and seeing the increase of power of that country; protection of all liberties that do not conflict with the needs of the state.

Cannot say I disagree with any of those.

But, back to this Obama business....

A reduction in spending for the United State Military would not exactly be a bad thing since it would force them to do something they have not had to do since World War II - improvise. Since that time, the US has gotten whatever it wanted with regards to equipment. Innovation inside the military ground to a halt. No, instead of scrapping an entire line of planes or whatever, they may be forced to make it better. Instead of hiring civilians or civilian contractors, they can do they jobs themselves. Get civilian police, firefighters, and clerks OFF military installations and give those positions back to soldiers, marines, sailors, and airmen.

The US is not the world's police force, perhaps this will make them stop trying to stop other countries from settling their differences and force them look to correct things inside their own borders.

I hate Obama. I remember where I and every member of my generation was at 00630am on 11 September 2001. And anyone named Hussein Obama just to me seems like a horrible mistake. During World War I ethnic Germans in America had their shops smashed and were ridiculed if not outright killed. There was no redress of their grievances. And you can be damned sure none would have won so much as mayorship. Thirty years later the Japanese were herded into camps in the midwest not at all unlike those named Treblinka and Sachsenhausn five thousand miles west. A young man named Omoroku or whatever would have not been elected to anything afterwards. No apologies made.

So, why is loathing a Muslim born fanatic hiding under the veil of American christianity wrong when that country is at war with the Muslim world?

America has made its decision. The world must live with it.
Posts: 4195
  • Posted On: Nov 7 2008 2:43pm
Fascism is not necessarily a bad thing.


lol.... You are a rock, Telan. It's good to know some things don't change..


And anyone named Hussein Obama just to me seems like a horrible mistake.


He probably thought the same thing when it happened. But, then again, it's not like he had any say as to what his parents named him.

It's like naming your kid: River. It may sound cool to the parents but it will ensure your kid gets his ass kicked at school.


*wishes the British Empire would come back*


Stiff upper lip, man. Stiff upper lip.
Posts: 1621
  • Posted On: Nov 7 2008 2:52pm
Here here.

I've the ultimate idea to solve the situation. The United States will immediately cease to exist. In its place, we put the Viceroylaty of the Americas. We become a province of the United Kingdom and the British Empire is reborn. First, we annex India, the Crown Jewel of the Empire, then we have to retake Hing Kong then Shanghai - and Singapore if we have time.

Yes?


Humms Rule Britannia
Posts: 4025
  • Posted On: Nov 7 2008 3:27pm
Telan Desaria
Here here.

I've the ultimate idea to solve the situation. The United States will immediately cease to exist. In its place, we put the Viceroylaty of the Americas. We become a province of the United Kingdom and the British Empire is reborn. First, we annex India, the Crown Jewel of the Empire, then we have to retake Hing Kong then Shanghai - and Singapore if we have time.

Yes?


Humms Rule Britannia


Wha....what happened to your Germanic roots?....

TRAITOR!!!

Civil War 2.0 - The Viceroyalty of the Americans versus the Confederated States of America 2.0 (all teh awesomess of the south without the whole slaves issue). :D