I appreciate the fact that Nazi and German were not synonyms.
I simply wanted to point out that each side did things that in hindsight were not the most humane nor even the most effective.
Neither side can say they had the total moral highground.
But my main point was that both sides did what they thought would be necessary to win.
Maybe... maybe Churchill doesn't become PM and Britian capitulates during the Blitz? Maybe the U-Boat warfare destroys enough supplies to starve the British?
No one knew at the time that neither tactic would end up being enough to win the War.
Still, if they had won it Telan, you would say exactly what I say about the firebombing of Dresden and such:
I agree - - those who are ignorant of history WILL repeat its mistakes. Hitler = Bush. Why is only those who ignore history cannot draw the appropriate parallels.
I make one admition here that may very well earn me more ire than I have already: the war in the East was a war of annihilation not because they were Russians but because they were Communists. We wanted them all dead - without hesitation. My family included. Chaos has only two direct offsprings in this world: Democracy and Communism. In World War I, we fought Imperial Russia - - its men were accorded the full honour of prisoners and treated as we expected done to our own. The Seconwas different - the whole of the east had been corrupted and do we launched a crusade to eradicate that one threat against the world should have united - - it did not and the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s were spent paying for that mistake.
I myself do love the Russians - -they are a proud, vigorpous people who have earned a place of honour on the world stage for endurance and survival. They are a resourceful and loving people, espeically Cossacks and Ukrainians - I have known no more universally friendly people In all my time. I hate Communists and have had to be held back by a friend from assaulting one on the streets of New York who had the audacity to be handing out a communist newspaper. More frightening, he was in his twenties and a total devotee.
I am aware that Karl Marx and Max Esseling were both germans - - both men reviled and hated and robbed of their status as true Germans - -hence why both had to flee to Switzerland.
I am not absorbed by my own history - -I honour it. I embrace it and I study it. I look to it for advice, councel, and wisdom. I see in it an aspiration to the purities of the best qualities the world had to offer and warnings against the worst horrors ever committed against fellow Man. I see in militaristic Prussian Nantionalism an earned rise from backwater status to contintenal super power that swept from its doors the most fiersome enemies in history, and I see in Nazisim the most terrible deeds ever committed in the name of the Fatherland.
I wish death upon all how hate without reason because of race, creed, origin or religion. I will not however, shirk from defending my ancestors and my fellows against the threats that seek to destroy it - -Communism, democracy, anarchy, and such.
Some would call Germans hypocrites, being paragons of honour on one hand yet butchers on another - -so I pose this question
during the tsunami, billions of dollars flowed to people who hated the United States, there was no shortage of fund drives and coprorate sponerships. But why, at that very same time, veterans of the American Army in its Vietnamese conflict, suffered on the streets, spurned by your Dept of Vet affairs, lacking medical attention food and clothing, most mad from the horrors of unbridaled war. Why is it America was willing to aide those who had never helped it rather than brining comfort to those who had bled for it?????
You talk about hypocrisy? You keep saying how not all Germans were Nazis, which is true, but then you support a war of annihilation against the Russians. Not every Russian was a Communist.
I did not say Russians - -I said Communists. We wanted to eradicate all communists - -good Russians were to have remained alive - - that was an error of the Hitler-lackeys.
Telan... one thing came to my mind... what`s your take on the war of lapland? when Finland turned against Germany and began driving german forces out of Finland? The Germans left lapland devastated and burned Rovaniemi completely down, mined rods and destroyed bridges to slow the finnish advance..
I mean I understand such tactics, but to burn the hole town of rovaniemi down? we were forced to drive german forces away cause because Soviet Union was presuring us, but it sure wasn`t easy to turn against the one`s you fought with so Telan my true point being do you see us finns as back stabbing bastards?
Finland was a remarkable force against the Russians - - Timoshenko and Budenny attacked with three million, the Finnish resisted with barely two hundred thousand. The Finns held magnificently and handed the Russians their hat. Marshal Mannerheim was awarded several decorations by Germany and there was an excellent relationship between the German troops sent to aide them. I know General Eduard Dietl served there as well as almost every Mountain Division (gebrisgjaeger-division) we mustered during the war. Several STug IIIs and other Panzers were sent as well as other equipment that aided you considerably.
Then, after three years of amazing cooperation, the Finns sided with the Russians and attacked the troops who had only hours before fought along side them, bled with them, and died for them. Many felt betrayed but, to the Finns credit, most of the Germans units were given time to leave and commence their withdrawal.
As for the burning of the village, I honestly know nothing about it. Demolishing power facilities, bridges, roads, et al are all tactical considerations that must be made and any one who does retreat without doing such things isnt worth his commission.
Burning the village - - very improper. Perhaps it was done as a reprisal, were there partisans operating in the area???
Destroying the rest of the facilities - -correct.
I would have personally liked to see Finland hang on or fight to the death - -we never betrayed a country to the enemy. We did not turn over Italy, Hungary, Bulgarian, Romania - the countries that allied themselves with us were defended to the last. Italy did the same thing and it hurt just the same.
How would American have felt if while it was entraining men for the assault on France every British soldier officer and citizen began attacking and slaughtering them???
We felt betrayed but I can at least understand why.
