Australia - a question
Posts: 400
  • Posted On: Jul 21 2005 3:23pm
Telan Desaria
Who did this? America would not even exist were it not for a determined Prussian named Baron von Steuben. You won because you firebombed innocent civilians - ie Dresden, hamburg, Kiel, wilhelmshaven. Even during the Blitz we tried to remain on military targets. Your warfare was unrestricted. You substitued victory for the rules of war. And you occupy a country more vilely than we ever did. With us they knew thy would be subjugated - there were no lies. In America, the occupation is so much more subversive. America destroyed Germany.



Von Stueben was not the only military advisor to the Americans during the Revolutionary War.

Germany fired V1 and V2 rockets relentlessly at London, killing thousands of civilians. So you don't get to complain about Dresden.

And you also don't get to talk about 'the rules of war'. Not with that little thing called the Holocaust.

Oh and the German occupation of France was worse than that of the American occupation of Germany.
Posts: 1772
  • Posted On: Jul 21 2005 4:28pm
Well, shit, here we go again...

But I might as well add:

VIVA MEXICO!
Rac
Posts: 147
  • Posted On: Jul 21 2005 6:16pm
Vodo Baas
Von Stueben was not the only military advisor to the Americans during the Revolutionary War.

Germany fired V1 and V2 rockets relentlessly at London, killing thousands of civilians. So you don't get to complain about Dresden.

And you also don't get to talk about 'the rules of war'. Not with that little thing called the Holocaust.

Oh and the German occupation of France was worse than that of the American occupation of Germany.


Sigh... guys it`s inevetable that innocent people die in war and both sides in war will kill innocent people as in WW2...
Posts: 2164
  • Posted On: Jul 21 2005 6:54pm
So... back on topic... Australia is cool!
Rac
Posts: 147
  • Posted On: Jul 21 2005 6:57pm
oh yeah... doesn`t australia have the worlds most sheep? or was it that Australia had most sheep compared to their population? :D Oh by the way my dog is an australian terrier
Posts: 1621
  • Posted On: Jul 21 2005 7:17pm
One damned minute. Study history before you dare rebut and insult the name of the Fatherland. V-1 Rockets and V-2 rockets were launched against the advice of German High Command - - Oberbefehlshaber-Wehrmacht. Luftwaffe command was the only force - -aside from the SS - that supported such warfare. What you forget is that most of Germany were still the holders of noble ideas such as honour and dignity. Many an officer did resign in protest to many things during the war, though those protests often went unnoticed by Der Kleine Gefreiter.

As for von Steuben - -he is one of only two military officers thanked by General Washington in his letter to congress after the Siege of Yorktown. other notable adventurers such as Count Polaski from - -hah - -Poland - were dismal failures and more of a drain on the American war effort than they were good. Lafayette is an example of one of the higher minds but this was at a time when France was a military power.


And you dare bring up the Holocaust? Most Germans were unaware of it until it was too late. You forget that we were preoccupied with the war. Officers that did know protested and some even openly fought it.l Generalfeldmarschal Ewald von Kleist, an excellent officer, was placed in command of the Ukraine and was openly at ods with Gauleiter Erich Koch who wanted to exploit the people and deport the Jews to their death. Von Kleist, on his assuming command, summoned all police, SS, Gestapo, and aprty officials to his HQ and told them he would tolerate no excesses in his zone of command and that any man who tried to contravene his orders would be cout martialed or stopped by force. He went so far as to execute Haupsturmfurher Fuchs, an SS officer who was detached from an Einsatzgruppen to round up jews in Kiev. Von Kleist court martialed him for disobeying standing orders and had him hanged - -an insult to any miliatry officer. True soldiers are shot as a courtesy.

The German occupation of France was not as bad as you think. You forget that the people moved in armed resistance - guerilla warfare. According to the Hague convention paramilitary soldeirs that engage in militayr acts out of uniform and engage in subterfuge may be executed as criminals. It was the failure of the French to reqact properly that caused such suffering. There were however many many many excesses committed, many at the hands of Klaus Barbie, the Butcher of Lyon. However, in France, the SS was greatlyu aided by French police in rounding up Jews - actually, they did more en masse than the SS.

I am not an apologist for the actions of my ancestors - -indeed, many were horrid and unspeakable. However, they reflect a very small segment of the population who were allowed to dominate through the charisma of a brilliant sociopath - Hitler. This only detratcs from the proud Martial tradition gleaned over a thousand years.

Remember - most people think that all germans were nazis during the war. Wrong - -our leader was a Nazi. Today, because your president is a republikan, does that make all American soldiers republican?????
Rac
Posts: 147
  • Posted On: Jul 21 2005 7:30pm
Thinking that all germans were nazi is just stupid because the true nazi were the leaders and the one`s who made the decisions such as the final solution (concerning jews)

Oh by the way nice of the Germans in a way kindly to give us Finns to the Russians in that secret document of Ribbentrop Molotov treaty :D No the germans didn`t sell us but then we were selfish(and smart) enough to turn against germany avoiding a bigger nasty fight with the Russians when he would have been over run...propably... I am truly grateful of the german soldiers assistance because I wouldn`t be living in this kinda home propably without them. Of course we went into the war together...we finns just wanted payback and a great finland(a foolish dream)
Posts: 383
  • Posted On: Jul 21 2005 7:46pm
Telan Desaria
It was the failure of the French to reqact properly that caused such suffering.


Hang on, I have no problem wth Germans, but you simply cannot say how people should react under war. To say the French reacted wrong is like saying it was ok to kill them cus they didn't want you occupying their land.
Posts: 414
  • Posted On: Jul 21 2005 8:50pm
And you also don't get to talk about 'the rules of war'. Not with that little thing called the Holocaust.
actually he does, unless you honestly believe that destroying what you hate justifies becoming what you hate in the process.
Posts: 1621
  • Posted On: Jul 21 2005 10:26pm
Thank you Yoss.