I'd just like to point out a couple of things dealing with items which Leia has primarily brought up.

There are people that complain about the Sith's use of force powers. But as a person that has been looking up stuff like this (for the Jensaarai), there is very little of this that isn't remotely feasible. Even Kraken's self-destruct does have some precedence set by Neeja Halcyon's example on Susevfi. Far too often do we seem to use the TRF Force Wiki as a strict set of rules. That these are the only powers that one can use. But they do not account for special circumstances, such as Vance's training with the Aing-Ti or any of the myriads of other Force traditions, who each have their own different powers and views on what the Force is. And all of these cultures can enrich the stories and make characters more different, more unique than the average run-of-the-mill Jedi/Sith. I think we need to be a little more open-minded about things like this.

That being said, I think the Crusade has gained some unfair criticism about its armies. Should we have tons of rampaging Force-users? Should I clone an entire army of Adrians for the Confederation and try to beat down BDE with them? Of course not. Common sense. But I think we need to remember several things. Lord Silk's force-using troops have been established for years, at least from what I've read. If there was a problem with their existence, I think it should have been brought up, and dealt with when they formed; that is before Beff put work into developing those men, which I will point out he has.

Secondly, the numbers of force-sensitives involved within this thread. The number of Jedi Knights or Sith Warriors has always been small. The number of masters, smaller. And the number of apprentices? Larger than that of Knights and Warriors. But we're forgetting something. There are degrees of Force-sensivity. There have been many in the past who have been force-sensitive, but not strong enough to become even apprentices (Most of those during the days of the Old Republic were sent off to the Agricultural Corps). And most likely a lot more of them than mere apprentices. They may not be strong enough to really use any Force powers, but even the most undeveloped force-sensitive, given time and training, can wield a lightsaber. I think Dolash has really seemed to have stuck with that well with most of his Void Knights.

Just my two cents.

Om

No goal. No understanding of what the Crusade is doing there.

I think it's pretty fucking crystal. The Crusade is here to run the Sith under, to burn their Order to the ground. You know how I know? I so much as stated such in the thread.

Lord Silk

A reckoning is at hand.

It occurs on Xa Fel, the planet of your fuax-Sith.

We, the true Sith, Crusaders of the Palestar, have come to cleanse you of this pestilent nuisance.

Fairly clear, that, alongside other allusions towards the same...

I'm not leaving until I'm driven off or the Sith Order is in ashes. If you can't handle that Vance, as head of a TRF-based faction, then you might as well roll over and play dead. Call me out all you want. Your hard work not withstanding, our attempts to write a story not withstanding, this is still TRF.

Make your bid for the Galaxy.

My hope was that we could conduct ourselves with a modicum of respect for one another no matter how outlandish the proposal. But if we all cannot manage that, I suggest we proceed exactly as we have and see who can piss the farthest.

I <3 11 page OOC threads. Now lets get 3 more of them :)

Very well, Beff. I will state for the record, again: I told you so.

Just don't lie and tell me that you hate to say so.

It's been your mantra.

I think it's pretty fucking crystal. The Crusade is here to run the Sith under, to burn their Order to the ground. You know how I know? I so much as stated such in the thread.

I see.


Then you would do well to stop cloaking the Crusade as something fun for all writers when your true intent is to burn them.

Adrian Ravenna

Lord Silk's force-using troops have been established for years, at least from what I've read. If there was a problem with their existence, I think it should have been brought up, and dealt with when they formed; that is before Beff put work into developing those men, which I will point out he has.

I have no comment on Beff's armies themselves, only on your interpretation of them. In a storyline roleplay, you can do and say whatever you want. If you want to have a rampaging army of Jedi Knights for a storyline purpose, no one is really going to bother you. You're writing a story, you can do as you like.

But as soon as you begin to write with or against other characters, that "it's a story" argument no longer holds water. As soon as you're in a competitive roleplay, you have to write according to what is fair and realistic. My example of an army of Jedi Knights would be decidedly unfair, no matter how much work was put into them, because it takes one user months or years to become a Knight.

It's the same theory that governs our R&Ds: it doesn't really matter what they say in a private roleplay, but in a competitive roleplay they must be used fairly.

I think all of the participants in this thread are mature and veteran enough to know this, so play fair and we won't need three more OOC threads. :)

I will concede the point that Silk's soldiers may indeed have some force powers and are indeed fanatical devotees to the cult of their master, made all the stronger and more angry by banishment on Yinchorr, a world with more horrors than Tatooine and just as barren. What occurs in a storyline rp does indeed hold water in another thread, hence why that which have been fine tuned and adjusted can defeat that which has not.

A prime example being my Imperial Guard. It stands to reason given the workl I've put into them they could easily smash aside a considerably large formation on say a unit vs corps instance of Rebel Confed or Coalition soldiers because that have the elite status time and dedication has granted them. Of course they can be overwhelmed and defeated like anyone else but these things happen.

War is like a river - it flows, violently at times, given to changing patterns and form in the blink of an ey. It may even slow down, but it never stops.

The problem here is that both sides want to win and keep everything in tact. Now the Crusade is indeed the very crux of the argument, a form of government and rp that is serving to breathe life into a communtiy that sees stagnation on the horizion. It has spurred out imaginations and given a great deal of time into a terrific and epic roleplay. But it is becoming mired in sveral posts of 'you can't do this cause i did that' and I see a fleet roleplay of the old SW-fans school replacing military units with force users.

I think the two opposing forces need to sit down OOC via IM or something and decide what is going to happen, and write to that end, retreating here, attacking there, and doing whatever else is required. I enjoy reading this and I certainly am looking forward to being attacked by it. I know in the end given the ghastly numbers of fodder the Crusade can deploy and the limited Imperial resources under my command I am going to find my sector of command raped and ravaged - but you know what? It will be one hell of a storyline with glorious sacrifices and marvelous engagements, so I am looking forward to it.


As my mentor, IC and OOC, Simon Kaine once told me - A well written defeat is more valuable to us than a thousand hollow victories.

I pretty much agree with everything Telan said.

Hear hear.