Ever thought that maybe that kind of thinking is why you've been losing for so long?

Actually no. I've been around almost as long as you have, and I remember when we had some of the greats on our side.

Did we win then?

No.

Yeah, we lost when all of the greats left.

And we were left with people who didn't believe they could possibly recover.

So they didn't.

Thats one of the reasons I respect Dolash so much. He should be one of those guys who doesn't believe they can win. He should look at all of this and think "Wow, these guys have been around forever. No way I can beat them." But he doesn't. Because he chooses to believe that he has a fighting chance. And through that belief, hes created a fighting chance.

Ignorance is bliss, right?

Go ahead, Joren. Give up.

Everyone loves a quitter.

I'm not trying to be mean, or start a fight with you. Don't take it like that. You're on my side. But if you're not willing to fight anymore, then I agree. You shouldn't.

First, to clear something up:

Drayson posted several times in Bilbringi that he was winning because his troops were better trained than GCs, and we were essentially a bunch of idiots who fly into interdictor wells and abolisher fields.

Yes and no. What I actually said was "GC's best troops were off fighting BDE, leaving the remainder to attack". Which holds true - we can't simply ignore a recent, full-scale war.

Nowhere did I assume that your forces were useless. However, you wrote yourself into a corner: I did not craft bullshit. I did, however, exploit your mistakes. Mistakes which were made because you failed to respect what was written in my posts.

Flying into Abolisher fields, Interdictor fields... these are not things TNO has made you do, these are things you've done yourself. This kind of attitude is why we're hesitant to give quarter when you do make mistakes, for we take this same kind of "you win because you're full of shit" attitude irregardless.

:glance

Dolash: in a word? Yes.

I seem to recall you asked this question a while ago, and I think my answer was probably the same. The Coalition, for all intents and purposes, could not hope to win a full scale, complete war. The reason our respective sides have avoided engaging in such since the last was because it would ultimately mean one side had to be defeated entirely, and that side would more likely than not have been the GC.

And none of us wanted to see a TRF with one faction (TNO). Hence our current position.

I've always thought that a proper Rebellion-versus-Empire atmosphere would be a lot of fun, and the "new" (or not so new anymore) rules give us the oppertunity to play that up to its best.

The recent beginnings of war give you the perfect oppertunity to play the fall of the Coalition and the rise of the Rebellion out.

I know a lot of work has gone into building the Coalition, and you've worked hard to keep it alive - and done an admirable job.

I do honestly think Empire vs. Rebels would be more fun than what we have now, but that is a big sacrafice on the part of the GC to be making.

Still, we're here for the writing, right? I think that scenario would open up a whole lot of oppertunities. Hell, it might make the Light Side so interesting people will want to join it, and there goes TNO's advantadge. ;)

Remember, the Light side once dominated TRF. All the best writers were over there. I think it only natural that, at some point, the cycle will refresh and we'll be in that position again.

The when - that is up to the writers.

Funny coming from you.


But seriously, if I am quitting, then fine. But I am not quitting because I think we "can't win", I am quitting for entirely different reasons. And if you spent years trying to bring TNO down without success (and believe me I tried. remember The New Alliance and Outer-Rim Sovereignty?), then it might get old for you too.

You should try it some time. It sucks. And I am sick of losing and never being rewarded for my extensive efforts.


So yeah, maybe I'm quitting, but for reasons you don't even know.

And I have better things to do with my time rather than getting shitted on by TNO and Dolash.

I'm going to have to say that the Coalition should not disband, for several reasons. But I'll get to that in a minute.

First, to respond to Vodo: Much of what Drayson said was directed at Joren, not the Coalition in general. Joren opened himself up to a number of innovative things, which I won't go into here as it is not the place for it.

Personally, as a member of the Empire, I am more than willing to concede defeat if the storyline makes it reasonable. While such defeats are pre-planned, that is my personal preference for any storyline. I don't necessarily like open-ended stories myself because they lead to things like Bilbringi where everybody ends up pissed off.

Now, as far as the Empire falling: I think it is a distinct possibility. However, the GC would definitely have to pull itself together first. I can think of several ways for the GC even now to use TNO's strengths against them, yet I haven't seen any of them (except for one) written on the boards. (The one I refer to is Visionaries Episode II, with Dolash looking for propaganda on TNO torturing aliens).

Now, finally, to Dolash's question.

My opinions are mixed. I think the GC disbanding would form a good storyline, but I think there is one better. What if Regrad, recognizing the inherent problems in the GC (divisions between subfactions, etc), called for a complete revamping of the Coalition's government? A vote is held and the measure passes by a small margin. A convention is held to rework the government and a constitution is presented that makes the Coalition much more like the Republic - the central government is stronger, but the subfactions retain their sovereignty. Once that happens, the Coalition pulls a fast one and declares the old government bankrupt, bypassing the need to pay back debts. The GC now suddenly has a booming economy, their fleet grows, and recruiting skyrockets. While the new military won't be to the standard of, say, the Guard or even the SS, they could probably hold their own in a general fleet engagement. Suddenly TNO has a very big problem.

Now, whether or not they'll topple I don't know. That should be left up to the heads of government. But I think that GC still has a valuable place on the board and should not be disbanded.

Vodo = Joren. FYI.

Your post makes sense, Wes, so cool.

But, your solution still leaves GC exactly where it left off: as a small power that can't stand up to TNO. The subfaction leaders still squabble, TNO's propaganda machine goes to work, and slowly it becomes stagnant again.

Doesn't really solve anything.