Or perhaps the fact that it continues to come up says something about the fact that it needs to be addressed.
Maybe you just don't want to admit that becase, as we've seen, you're feeling the Coalition love these days.
The fact of the matter is this: the GC has roleplayed their government in a way I see as totally unrealistic. And when they're called on it, they refuse to defend themselves. And people like you weigh in, attacking the "other side" for being on a "witch hunt".
And allowing the GC to continue portraying themselves as the goverment that threw itself into a dozen wars within the space of a year and somehow managed to come out unscathed!
Because, apparently, that whole "realism" concept that our rules are based on does not apply to the Coalition. We're not debating this issue "again", we're debating it still, because until now no one from the GC has offered a reasonable explanation for how they're paying for these massive wars and rebuilding.
The state of their economy has been commented on both IC and OOC, with logical and sound reasoning behind the claims made. And those claims are met with responses like yours, that attack the person and not the issue.
Which makes me think that the GC doesn't really have a leg to stand on, and knows it.
If that's not the case, as everyone keeps claiming it is, then let's discuss it, and put this debate behind us.
Corise: granted the newer groups to join the Coalition are likely not terribly adversely affected by the last war. But the central government, the Azguards, the Cren, etc. have now fought through the TNO war and the BDE war. I'm not up to date on the Gestalt Colonies, but I see Onyx being in a relatively strong position, the Confederacy as being in a relatively strong position, and the Cren and Azguards completely raped. Just in terms of soldiers alone, with thousands killed in the TNO war, does Azguard have enough population to replenish their fleets?
These are curiousories, not accusations. As I've said, with the exception of Julius' writing, I have not seen mention anywhere that the GC's economy is anything less than amazing. Which strikes me as terribly unrealistic - I honestly doubt both their financial ability (as a whole) and their will to get themselves into another war.
When I say "another war", I do mean a potential war, of course, as the Bilbringi thread has not progressed to that point. But by attacking there, the GC is implying they have the resources to get into another full-scale war. Otherwise they wouldn't dare wake the giant, no?
Considering less than five years have passed since the TNO war (and the BDE war is ongoing), I still doubt the financial and willingness abilities for the GC to go to war. That would be like Germany post WW1 invading Poland in 1925.
Now, you do have a point that the newer subfactions are removed from the devastation. But it is my understanding that Onyx was created by the GC High Command (as opposed to the Confederacy, which was independent and joined). Which costs money. And Joren mentions Cren and Azguard ships. And Confederacy ships. In short, he implies that the entire Coalition is involved.
Does the Cren Alliance have the motivation and money? Does Azguard?
With regards to your example of the US war: taxes have not increased dramatically. But the debt has skyrocketed, and that will have to paid off sometime.
The BDE war was over months ago, in character, since it stops at the conclusion of the Battle of Mon Cal.
Comparing the BDE war to the Iraq war is a bit silly. GC has secured no resources and found it's capital under seige, so unlike in Iraq where resource basec economy grows as a result of the down payment of money into the war, basically all that's happened is that the BDE fleet came and wrecked up a bunch of shit on Mon Calamari. If you *must* find a real life anaologie, it's more like 9/11 then the ensuing wars, and we all know what that did to the ecoonomny.
That said, I'm more inclined to lean towards Beff here, but Drayson is not without grouns to raise this issue. Still, he's a dick and he should fuck off.
This is a fictional setting, and in general, in cases such as this where the lines are fuzzy, people have the right to RP their governments as they wish. Someone, for example, from GC could claim TNO is overspending with all of their big ships. We could have a logical debate about that as well.
Another example would be the seemingly instanteous assimilation of conquered planets and their populace into the TNO war machine. From a historical example, we can look at World War II again. Germany took over much of Europe in a brilliant series of moves and their former enemies' war machine for Nazi use. And they did that with some success. There was some internal sabotage in French factories. There were also resistance groups that were an extreme headache to the Nazi occupation forces. In fact, most nations that have been conquered by a foreign power tend to have resistance groups, examples also including Vietnam, or Spain during the Napleonic Wars. This is something that is nearly always realistic from a historical standpoint, and one could argue that TNO never dealing with this sort of this isn't realistic from their standpoint.
This is a fictional setting. By its very nature, there are going to be things that aren't going to appear to be realistic to some people or groups. Starships aren't realistic in the modern world by any sense for example. Or more akin to this topic, having many different classes of warships seems realistic to Telan and myself, but the staff in general doesn't seem to like or approve of that idea at all.
I'm glad we seem to agree on the subfaction part. Albeit I can't make any definite comments on the Cren or Azguards (again, before my time here), I too would tend to think that they're not terribly well off. But would that affect the GC as a whole so badly as many people have tended to claim?
In my belief no. The Cren and Azguards have been major contributors to the Coalition, but that does not mean that they are the only ones. Together, those two subfactions total 9 worlds out of 77 that make up the Coalition. That's 11.68%. The Confederation alone is bigger than those two groups put together by two more planets.
The two subfactions that you have referred to are a relatively small portion of the Coalition. By those statistics, that would mean that somewhere in the 80th percentile of the Coalition has not been especially devastated by those wars. If over 80% of the Coalition is running nearly as normal, with normal economies, or in the relative rare case of regrowing economies, is the Coalition as a whole going to be exceptionally weak? I would think not, albeit it obviously won't be as strong as TNO.
Is this five years OOC or five years IC?
I don't know much about the formation of the Onyxian Commonwealth (again, before my time), but I was under the impression that it was more or less the Outer Rim Sovereignty. Omnae seems to have hinted that in the LON Reclamation thread as well, so my guess would be the infrastructure would already be existing, and would merely need to be included in the GC structure as a whole.
These are player-created races and factions. Trying to determine what a race would think being in a given situation isn't so easy. Simply take a look at the cultures of the world. Not all of them act the same in a given situation. Japanese business culture is much different Carribean business culture, they're nearly on opposite sides. Japanese business is nearly war, whereas Carribean business culture is much more relaxed, and rivals can be quite friendly. These are simply different variations within one race, nevermind an entire different species.
I agree. Drayson is a dick and should fuck off, but I am also willing to conceed that there are grounds for debate. However; this is not a debate. This a discussion that has ranged back and forth between debating issues that lack definition. It is my opinion that there can be no resolution which will appease all the parties involved and, for that reason, this is a totally pointless debate.
In the end, any real world comparisons to the GC, its economy and its military spending are pointless. If the GC were any real world entity, its closest link would be the Soviet Union in that it would have crumbled under its burdens long ago into its individual systems. Fortunatly that is not the way things go on here, so you'll do as you please to fight and bicker as wars rage on...
The reason you take over a planet is to get access to the resources and manpower there-in! Access to the fate of that planet! If you get control of a planet by just some fluke of how Grev drew the freaking map then I'll draw a new map that draws the rest of the galaxy with a GC sphere of influence.
'Sorry, but GC controls the rim via sphere of influence!'
You've got the resources of a hundred worlds give or take. You've got the man-power and such of a hundred or so worlds. You want to patrol of thousands, good for you, but you've only the manpower and resources of those hundred some odd you've got.
Fine. We'll have an influence sphere of the galatic core with huge populations and well developed industrial might while the Galatic Coalition gets a sphere of influence of the outlier worlds with underdeveloped alien scum and molten rock slug infested planets. We still pwn. :D
