Drayson

Posts: 2453

Drayson: I apologise for any offence I may have given you for the comments about the map. Looking back on it, they were a bit harsher than I intended them to be.

As for the Graviton Detector arguement, I actually feel that it would be reasonable, at the current time, for us to have multiple graviton detectors spread throughout the fleet and even more reasonable for the ones we have to be active at all times, because of the elevated hostilities with TNO. Ever since the last war there has been the possibility for another war with either TNO or BDE. At times these possibilities are higher than at other times (just like in real life). However, right now, since the thread is after Roche and Tynna, it would stand to reason that the Galactic Coalition is at a higher state of readiness. The Empire is known to use cloaked vessels, and has used them multiple times in the past against GC (or one of the factions which became GC). The increased state of readiness would have us doing patrols of the edge of our systems and having the GD Mk.I online at all times, to try and spot a sneak attack.

As well the whole issue with a potential BDE offensive would have also raised our readiness levels.

In no way am I supporting the kind of punishments that Simon was outlining, I feel that they seem too unreasonable, unrealistic and not fitting for the situation, plus could set a precendent of such punishments. As for what would be a reasonable punishment, I don't know.

If Dolash feels that the situation is fine as is, and you have no problem with his current post, than I see no reason for further debate on the topic, we can just let things stand as they are.

Jan Dondana

Posts: 2453

And since I took a long time writing that reply I guess the last section doesn't apply.

Omnae

Posts: 4195

When I wrote the penalty thing, I was curious what kind of reception it would have.

As I went off to eat, I am reminded of a time when Jan gave away Mon Calamari to BDE and there were "official" news bulletins of the fact in the IC/Prop forum.

Theoretically, those posts were IC and, if arguements here are to be taken into account, then the situation should have been played. If a high ranking GC man plays a Separatist and barters assets, that would have thrown quite a story into the mix of a GC Civil War.

Alas, we could not play that.

Anyway, Ahnk and I were talking and basically for a penalty, Drayson should lose the element of surprise.

Silus

Posts: 733

Kraken: That's like France attacking Germany, then saying "Oops, I thought this was Italy" and Germany becomes mad and attacks Italy.

Jan: shut up, please. Yeah, I looked at the map. I made a mistake. Unless you can honestly say you've never in your life made a mistake, I'll thank you to shut up.

But he paid for those mistakes. You didn't. If you wanted to attack the Coalition and not BDE... fine. Then check over your writing before you post it. I do so, especially after that drunk mess which some would call my "first months at TRF". Shooting yourself in the foot is not fun.

And yes, I still make mistakes. And yes, I have edited them in the past (remember that time I blew up the majority of an ESD?). But I have never - and will never - edited something because of an obvious mistake that would harm only my character or his allies.

Instead of accepting that mistake and taking the consequences of such an action, you took a cop-out and claimed "OMG oops". This, to me, is cheating. Were things different, if Dolash were meaning to attack the Empire and instead attacked a BDE world or a Union world, would you be so lenient? I'm guessing... no.

I believe Omnae's punishments are fair. This is a big move against BDE, one that would result in a full-on war (unless you want to take Kraken's strange idea of "common sense"), and if you are going to wave it away and push it under the rug as nothing more than a mistake, fine. But you should still pay for it, and more than a slap on the wrist and "don't do it again."

Dolash, your example of Corellia is ridiculous.

No. His example of Corellia is a good one, now matter how old it is. The Empire took advantage of every tiny mistake he made in that thread. Remember that deal with the shields?

I should point out the difference: that was an IC tactical move that had the potential to effect the outcome of the battle.

So is this. Dolash doesn't say the word "hyperspace", an OOC mistake that IC would appear as stupid. And you take advantage of that. He certainly suffered for it. You do the same thing, intend to attack the Coalition but attack the wrong planet. A mistake that had the potential to not only affect the outcome of a battle but the entire war between GC and TNO. This doesn't deserve to be easily brushed aside just because TNO is "teh pwnerz."

Because in my next post the Empire would simply jump to hyperspace, and the thread would be repeated at another planet. It is clear that it was an intentional attack on a GC world - you obviously knew that, or this thread would not exist.

So why the frell didn't you do that? Or is it because the Empire would suffer a threat of a war not only with GC, but with BDE... hmm. And this would happen, no matter what Kraken claims to be common sense.

I say take one of Omnae's suggestion, preferably one of the harsher ones and show that you can, believe it or not, play fair.

I know this doesn't really concern me. We're the Jedi, we don't really care what happens in this galaxy. :p I also know this isn't very polite, and is probably rude and rather mean in some places. I'm sorry if it seems so.

Silus

Posts: 733

Ack, it seems I posted somewhat late and missed Omnae's post. But I still would like someone to at least look over my points made, if only to help me feel like I didn't waste any time.

Demosthenes X

Posts: 2462

No. His example of Corellia is a good one, now matter how old it is. The Empire took advantage of every tiny mistake he made in that thread. Remember that deal with the shields?

I meant that the situation was (in retrospect) a ridiculous one that he should not have been punished for. Alas, he was.

Were things different, if Dolash were meaning to attack the Empire and instead attacked a BDE world or a Union world, would you be so lenient? I'm guessing... no.

I imagine it would depend on the BDE reaction. If whoever was representing BDE was cool with the thread being deleted, I would not push for it to go onwards. Cracker being the only active BDE rper complicates things, I admit, but that said, he is the only active BDE roleplayer.

The question becomes: how far do we trust Cracker to make a fair and balanced decision? Or do we drag Grev back and force an answer from him?

So why the frell didn't you do that? Or is it because the Empire would suffer a threat of a war not only with GC, but with BDE... hmm. And this would happen, no matter what Kraken claims to be common sense.

Because, as I've said, it becomes a waste of effort on everybody's part. Think, for just a moment! 1) BDE has no way of knowing that this was a TNO attack. It was a distance attack from out of sensor range, so they have only suspicions (at best). And why would they suspect TNO? 2) do you really expect that with the only active BDE RPer also being a member of TNO, anything would come of this situation if it was played out? Sure, IC it might have the "potential" to cause a war or whanot, but realistically and OOC speaking, that's not likely to happen.

Omnae's example is an interesting one, and I should like to hear everyone's comments on that. If we are willing to paint over a purposeful IC move, then why are we so quick to punish someone for making a mistake? The BDE/GC deal certainly had potential to do a great many things, but we let it slide.

Why the change of heart? Because TNO is "the power" and can handle being punished (which, I admit, we can). Because we're the bad guys, and whether or not we admit it we are all good guys deep down and secretly want to see the bad guy taken down a peg?

I'm curious to see how you might relate these two situations, anyway.

Anyway, Ahnk and I were talking and basically for a penalty, Drayson should lose the element of surprise.

Which sounds fair enough. I feel the story suffers as a result, but then, that is my fault. I should like to see how people relate this and the whole BDE/GC situation before anything else, though.

Silus

Posts: 733

I meant that the situation was (in retrospect) a ridiculous one that he should not have been punished for. Alas, he was.

My point exactly.

I imagine it would depend on the BDE reaction. If whoever was representing BDE was cool with the thread being deleted, I would not push for it to go onwards. Cracker being the only active BDE rper complicates things, I admit, but that said, he is the only active BDE roleplayer.

The question becomes: how far do we trust Cracker to make a fair and balanced decision? Or do we drag Grev back and force an answer from him?

Normally, I would agree with you. If it wasn't for:

This is where my twist would have come in at, with the result that the Dameuns would want GC blood even more now. Not that it matters. ;)

Eh, more common sense than anything else. The reason the Empire attacked was because at last they knew, Tholatin was an Coalition world. Therefore the Dameuns could have worked out that the Coalition had fed false information to the Imperials, and thus were attempting to drive a wedge in between the Dameuns and Imperials. Well, a bigger wedge at any point.

Again, imagine the situation switched.

Because, as I've said, it becomes a waste of effort on everybody's part. Think, for just a moment! 1) BDE has no way of knowing that this was a TNO attack. It was a distance attack from out of sensor range, so they have only suspicions (at best). And why would they suspect TNO?

Because it is the Empire's class of ships and weapons that fired on them? Although this might be hard to prove due to the surprise nature of the attack. Maybe because TNO is a militaristic empire, and it would make more sense for an attack from them than the Coalition - hippies with a few guns. It makes no sense at all for Vinda to attack, and the Union hardly has the destructive force of the Empire.

Even so, if you had immediately jumped it would probably require more evidence for them to make any sort of decision. But it makes more sense that they would suspect TNO (or the Cree'Ar, probably).

2) do you really expect that with the only active BDE RPer also being a member of TNO, anything would come of this situation if it was played out?

Are you saying Kraken is that biased, then? If this is the case, then Kraken really shouldn't be playing a BDE character at all, but instead stay as a member of TNO. I may be wrong, but I believe this would be cheating.

Omnae's example is an interesting one, and I should like to hear everyone's comments on that. If we are willing to paint over a purposeful IC move, then why are we so quick to punish someone for making a mistake? The BDE/GC deal certainly had potential to do a great many things, but we let it slide.

Ah, but both parties worked it out (I think), and not in a way where one member of GC who also happens to be part of BDE waves it away to the benefit of the Coalition. But you're right, maybe GC should have paid for that mistake.

Beff Pike

Posts: 5711

Degenerating into somantic dispute.

Vance Jas

Posts: 2164

I've read through this thread, and it seems to me that the whole situation has been a matter of brush it under the rug. Obviously Drayson didn't feel the need to continue, after the blunder he made became apparent, and obviously Kracken didn't feel the obligation to pursue the mistake, due to his being involved in both factions in question.

This isn't acceptable.

That is shamelessly cheating the game, and therefore appropriate penalties must be made. I do not think it's fair to simply delete the threads, and I (personally) would have expected at least some IC effort to defuse the situation; obviously if it was a case of misfire, then Drayson should have made the effort to contact BDE and explain the error. Failing that, Drayson could have attempted to cover his mistake by making it appear as a GC attack...

But to simply delete the thread and expect other factions to agree? Unbelievable.

I would suggest allowing the faction leaders, not affiliated with TNO, to work with Omnae (who should serve as a mediator) to reach satisfactory pentalities without the say of a TNO biased representative. Once the non-alligned TNO factions are content with their decision/s, those penalties take place.

This will allow a greater sense of fairness to be had, and will keep the clearly biased decisions from making other members of factions increasingly angry.

EDIT: As expected, had the thread not been deleted, such penalties could have been considerably lighter; but with the shameless brush away, such penalties should reflect the decisions made by both guilty parties involved.

Ahnk Rashanagok

Posts: 5387

Before we start drawing lynching parties, I DID say that if Kraken wanted to let the thread go, so it went. Which was probably in err, but I said it, and can't really take it back.

Demo: I think the thread suffers more from your lack of research and form posting then it does any lack of tactical advantage.

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