I think Dolash has a point here. The problem is, when something is put in character, the only chance you have to do a major edit is before a response takes place.
Vincent had already responded to the attack so the option to continue with the TNO blunder or not rests with him.
Vincent decided to allow the deletion but it does strike me as a bit bias as Vincent is also a ranking member of TNO.
I believe TNO should incur a penalty of some sort but what?
Allow GC to totally ignore the new attack on Bimmisaari and not consider it canon no matter how many times someone posts in it?
Remove 2 R&D's from TNO fleet? If so, which?
Remove a world from planet list? If so, which? (if you say Coruscant, I'll gut you).
Continue attack thread on it's own merits but not let it be used as R&D rp?
Cripple TNO fleet at Bimmisaari and give GC huge advantages? how? what?
Quality roleplaying has always been a staple with TNO but in their roleplaying, they have, in expecting their foes to step up in quality, ability and perception, made their foes pay for their mistakes. TNO shouldn't be above it.
Why amass so much if not to buffer you from mistakes made? It's not like TNO is going to be hurt.
But fair is fair.
Although, quite honestly, I was looking forward to the action of Drayson against Vincent no matter the outcome.
I can't say I really care who you decide to post in charge of defence, because quite simply, you do not know any planet has been attacked by the Empire. You know a ship has spontaniously exploded - as I said, the Imperial fleet is not in sensor range, so you can't see who fired. Certainly, Jan, should you happen to have a Graviton detector in the system, it might detect the Shroud. I'm not going to say "Oh you have no way of knowing it was the Empire lmfao!!!". I'm just saying that as of right now, you don't know it was the Empire. And, honestly, what are the chances of the GC having a graviton detector manned and operational at all hours on every planet they control?
I would guess not very high. You can argue it if you like, but frankly, I think the story is infinitely more interesting this way.
Dolash, as far as timelines go: it depends how Roche goes. It takes places two days after where Roche is at right now - if the Roche thread runs two days IC, then they will be concurrent. If Roche ends IC tomorrow, then they do not. To be safe, I wouldn't commit a character, but frankly, I don't care. The timeline for this RP is not set in stone, it is a reaction to Roche. Depending how Roche goes, it might be a counterattack for invading our space (what we feel to be our space), or it might be punishment for being dicks. Also: between Roche and Tynna. How much IC time has passed in the Roche thread? It's not established how long Trinity took to get there (for example), but imo it's been several days at least since the "start" of the thread. So Tynna could have taken place during that period.
As for R&Ds - there is no more "it takes X days to prepare an R&D" anymore. I judged that the R&Ds would be ready because the EMPIRE ships present are not production vessels per say, they are the existing vessels that tests were performed on, now undergoing combat testing. The Astrus... I threw it in because I like the design and wanted to play with it, I don't care one way or another whether it's an Astrus or a Reign or what, so if you take issue with it, I can and will change it.
Jan: shut up, please. Yeah, I looked at the map. I made a mistake. Unless you can honestly say you've never in your life made a mistake, I'll thank you to shut up. Dolash, your example of Corellia is ridiculous. I probably disagreed with this assessment at the time (because we were on opposite sides), but you should not have been punished for that. You were, that's done with. However, I should point out the difference: that was an IC tactical move that had the potential to effect the outcome of the battle. Mine was an OOC mistake that, if played IC, would simply be stupid. Because in my next post the Empire would simply jump to hyperspace, and the thread would be repeated at another planet. It is clear that it was an intentional attack on a GC world - you obviously knew that, or this thread would not exist.
Anyone else: yes, I am well aware deleting the thread was the "easy" way out. I couldn't care less. I thought about it, and there's more than one IC way I could have reworked the thread, but it seemed a waste of effort. The thread is clearly an attack on a GC target. It was an OOC mistake. Like Jan, unless you've never made a mistake (ever), I'll thank you to reserve judgement.
Omnae: it was never meant as an R&D thread, the EMPIRE R&D thread is long completed. And Jan, if you're going to go strictly by dates of the FIRST post in a thread, then the completion of the EMPIRE r&d was sometime in 2003 (or maybe 2004).
But I think I've explained my view on the timeline sufficiently.
All: the trick of the matter is, what was put IC was also an attack on the Coalition. It is stated specifically that the intention is to strike the GC. So where do we draw the line of "he said GC" and "he named the wrong planet"?
It's my view that the thread was and is an attack on the GC - but then, I am the one orchestrating the attack and am therefor biased. That said, as the one writing the thread, I know what the intent was. And it was an attack on the GC.
Certainly if it is the will of the greater community I am willing to finish the original thread, but I feel it would be a waste of effort and not really change anything: an attack on the GC would still take place.
In determining a penalty, if someone has a proposal that makes sense than share it, please. To use Dolash's example, TNO gained an advantadge from his mistake at Corellia, but it was not a matter of saying "his fleet suffers 50% losses" or "we strike two R&Ds from his roster", the mistake he made was simply played into the battle, and it effected the outcome.
But I don't like that example, because the situations differ. This is not, strictly speaking, a battle: if it comes to that, the Empire would likely simply retreat. Indeed, I can tell you now that if the original thread were to continue, the next post on TNO's part would consist of "Well, the guns work, let's go hit the REAL target".
Hence my belief that it makes more sense overall to simply replace the thread with one that reflects my original intentions.
I'm not sure how much/if any of that made sense. But, thoughts?
Until the issue of the original thread has been resolved, you have zero right to use it for you IC gain. As it stands right now IC, the original thread does not exist, which makes what you're doing equally ridiculous.
I'll thank you to remove your post until such time as a conclusion has been reached as to what happened (if anything) IC at Tholatin.
I agree that it would work best from a readers standpoint to simply work the penalty into the story itself, however; the thread has been deleted. The idea of starting again reeks of moderated rulings. I have no idea. What else is new?
Well, since Dolash had to pay for HIS mistake at Corellia, why do you get to escape with your own? Especially sicne a response was made? Yes I've made mistakes and trust me, I've had to live with them!
I didn't notice a reply to the one thread, and my paladin was jailed and at the hands of an executioner. (They thought my lack of response was due to my character being disabled which by right he was) so we worked our way around it and came up with a cool rescue thread.
Your navigators/intelligence ops made a mistake and accidently fired on the BDE.
Americans have accidently bombed hospital complexes.
The main reasons I chose to go ahead and allow for the deletion of the thread is for mainly the reasons of time and feasibility. I was indeed looking forward to going one on one with Demo and stuff, but it wasn't until after I posted a response, that (A), I saw Demos statement about him wanting to delete the thread, and (B) I realized that I am already bogged down in threads. Basically I decided to make a choice. Go with the current thread, or go with the new R&D line I'm working on, complete with example threads. I chose to go with the latter.
But I also completley understand Omnae's point of view. While I believe striking R&Ds and planets from the listings is quite harsh, I think that a penalty of some kind should be enforced to garauntee equality for all.
As I said, Dolash did not (strictly speaking) incur a penalty for his mistake - he was forced to play the thread as he had described it IC, by travelling in real space instead of hyperspace. It was not so much a penalty as it was a complete lack of compassion - i.e. we didn't give him a break where we could or should have, and it did adversely effect him. But neither was his fleet arbitrarilly reduced as a result.
The situations are somewhat different, though, as I've said.
If reducing the number of ships present at Bimissari is seen as a fair "penalty", then I'll abide by that...
