I think the Defender ION Mine III comes from the book "The Darkstryder Campaign" by West End Games.

Perrin's quote comes from <a href="http://www.swtft.com/settings/darkstryder/ionmined20r.html" target="_new">here</a>. He did the same thing I did, typed "Defender Ion Mine" into Google and took the first likely-looking page.

Perrin is not the sort of person you accuse of making quotes up. He (and TNO, for that matter) do not stoop to such levels. We win our battles through superior IC intelect (or something). And yes, through playing rough as well.


<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2">There is no reason why my mines wouldn't target your fighters.</blockquote>

<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2">Normally, it will ignore any object that is less than four meters in diameter.</blockquote>


I believe Chau and Perrin have already acknowledged the SBS as out of the fight, so that's a moot point (I thew that in bold for future reference).


<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2">Look at those three quotes. Yours directly contradicts mine. Mine was posted first, and in the RP. Therefore, your is ignored, and useless. Finally, obviously you can't destroy 90% all of the mines.</blockquote>

Your quotes state the mines as being grouped in front of the shipyards. Unfortunately for you, your shipyards have a collective length of 120 kilometres (assuming you have four there, I could be wrong).

Add to that the distance from your yards to the TNO fleet. A low estimate of 100 kilometres. That means your mines are spread over an area of 1200 square kilometres.

50 000/1200 = 41 mines per square kilometre.

Uusing that math, they're relatively spread out. Of course, maybe you placed them only three kilometres out from your shipyards.

That gives you 1600 mines per square kilometer. Looking better, no?

Here's the thing, though. You never said how far the mines extended. That gives Perrin some leeway to do so, and that directly affects the number of mines you lost.

<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2">Also, why are you RPing for Chau? When did he transfer command to you?</blockquote>

There is no rule against involving more than one character in a battle. Perrin, if you will notice, is not in command. He is aboard one of the Sith Battleships.

Perrin has been posting for Chau, however, becaue Chau has been absent of late. And you are in no position to argu over who is commanding the battle... I recall command of the GC fleet in Hands of the Gods changing once or twice.

He (and TNO, for that matter) do not stoop to such levels.

I do.

Yes, but we all know you don't count.

Hell, the only reason TNO keeps you on is your tactical skills, apptitude for taking planets, writing skills, and overall uberness...

@#%$.

Perrin, my mistake.

The "thing" I was talking about was your Assault Sphere, not the Sithbattlecruiser. It's a mute point now though.

Fine, if I didn't disable his Assault Sphere, my two shots still hit two other Sith Battlecruisers.

Where do you see me posting that that the Attack Sphere was not disabled? You hit it twice. Or are you confused about my rendering of the term: sluggish.


I just made mention that an SBS was in the way of the second shot....but not so squarely in it's way. The SBS may have drawn strength from the ion pulse, but your second shot still did hit the AS.

I did not say otherwise so I don't know what you are trying to argue about with regards the AS.

Luckily the enemy had attacked right near the shipyards, where all the mines were placed.

The enemy could basicly only visually target the mines, since Defender Ion Mines are extremely difficult to find on sensors and pinpoint. Unfortunately with a big field of them in front of the fleet, it wouldn't be hard to find them.

If they didn't know they were there, then yes. but the moment many of them start shooting, that sort of gives away their location and gives the enemy an idea of what to scan for.

Besides: I was using your words: "Unfortunately with a big field of them in front of the fleet, it wouldn't be hard to find them."

sheesh.

As for the 90% of the mines in the general area being disabled, you never said exactly how many mines I was dealing with. In fact, you never really give their positions in any exact sense whether they are all bunched up or spread out.

Your Response:

Look at those three quotes.

ok. Let's list everything that you say regarding the mines:


A. ..near the shipyards, where all the mines were placed
B. Defender Ion Mines are extremely difficult to find on sensors and pinpoint
C. Unfortunately with a big field of them in front of the fleet, it wouldn't be hard to find them


This is not the plethora of information you may think it is for me to work with, Jan.

And also note, from your own mouth, B and C cancel each other out.

Yours directly contradicts mine.

Quite the opposite really.

How so? Let's look at my last post here that you quoted and let's see...



My points:

you never said exactly how many mines I was dealing with


This is a true statement. I've looked at A, B, and C and I see nothing informing me of the number of mines I am facing. And also note, I am NOT saying that you don't have them.... you just don't give me that detail.

So, I basically posted first hinting on those numbers... hence, using your reasoning, I posted first and therefore it is true.

;)


Also note, I didn't say that 90% of ALL your mines were gone. Just 90% of those around the vicinity of my fleet's position.


you never really give their positions in any exact sense whether they are all bunched up or spread out

You would probably say: I did! Look at letter "A" on the list!!!



But, shipyards are 40 km.

Let's assume there are 4 yards. This is an area larger than 160 km overwhich the mines would be spaced (at best). Why do I say over 160 km?

Because your shipyards would not be rubbing up against each other and because a field was in front of my fleet before they moved to the left in front of the yards (which then covers a greater area).


Near your shipyards? behind them? in front of them? all around them? Off to the left? Off to the right? Above them? Under them?

Details, Jan! Details!

Mine was posted first, and in the RP. Therefore, your is ignored, and useless.

Therefore, you just made my point. I posted where my sensors found them (in being near the shipyards) and since I posted where they were first...using your reasoning...then that makes it true?

And where exactly were those mines that were neutralized? Whyunder the guns of the TIE Devils, of course.

Finally, obviously you can't destroy 90% all of the mines.

I didn't. Read that bit again. If you still come up with the figure: 90% of ALL of the mines... read it again, slower.

..A mine that detects a ship within its range will fire upon it once per round. Normally, it will ignore any object that is less than four meters in diameter.

Where the hell did you find that quote? Or did you jsut make it up as I suspect you did?

Ouch. Drayson pointed out where I got the quote and how I found it.

So....

Defender Ion Mines are extremely difficult to find on sensors and pinpoint

Where did you get your reference?

Plus, that is normally, hwich would be when there are other ships around. With no other ships around, they woudl obviously mass fire at mass of 100 fighters in front of them.

There is no reason why my mines wouldn't target your fighters.

I gave you the reason: Normally, it will ignore any object that is less than four meters in diameter. And (if you discount the source, then, using your reasoning) since I am the first one to mention the max vessel targeting size for the mines, what I say must be correct.


Also, I recall that when you called me a godmoder you told me that if my ship's weapons could hit your mines then your mines could strike back. You may be right.. you may be wrong. In any case, I am curious: Did you make that up or do you have a source?

If so, where?

Also, why are you RPing for Chau? When did he transfer command to you?

Read the thread. You'll note I am not in command.

Tell me, did you really expect us to just sit there and let you (every 72 hours) take pot shots at the fleet?

Drayson, also excellently answered this as well. We (TNO)didn't have a problem with Dolash assuming OOC command of TGC's fleet.

I love hardball.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Defender Ion Mines are extremely difficult to find on sensors and pinpoint

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Where did you get your reference?

End quote

I got mine from the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, the book, a completely cannon source.(this isn't saying yours isn't cannon)




start quote:

Drayson, also excellently answered this as well. We (TNO)didn't have a problem with Dolash assuming OOC command of TGC's fleet.

end quote.



We posted in the OOC thread that Dolash would be doing so.

Also, I recall that when you called me a godmoder you told me that if my ship's weapons could hit your mines then your mines could strike back. You may be right.. you may be wrong. In any case, I am curious: Did you make that up or do you have a source?

If so, where?


I don't have a specific source, other then the Essential Guide of Weapons and Technology, which was where I found the mine, and it basicly described it as a full ranged ion cannon.

Anyway, back to the important stuff, I'll be posting soon.

<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif" />



. . .<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif" />

<img border=0 src="http://centerstation.net/images/smilies/confused.gif" />

I got mine from the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, the book, a completely cannon source.(this isn't saying yours isn't cannon)

The Essential Guides, actually, are not cannon. They rank third-last, before video games and comic books. Expanded Universe novels outrank them because the information therein is drawn from the EU, but may be flawed in transition.

Example: the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels describes the Executor at 8000 meters, whereas cannon shows it at 17 600.

Its all canon! Cannon is something that shoots.

Canon is the reference to how SW 'legal' it is. Like Church Canon.