Personally, I think that the capture was legal. Joren was there and did not leave. Perhaps he figured the planet would not fall or did not count on the chance that TNO would capture him.


In any event, however, even with capture, TNO is still bound by the rules at TRF. Joren Arden cannot be killed or maimed or whatnot.


Also, personally, I do not believe that the "prisoner" status should be carried out indefinitely.

I am reminded of a situation way way back when ..back in The Gungan Council days where Itala captured .. I believe it was a Jedi named Artimer when he assaulted the Jedi Temple on Elrood. Basically, captured him and then took him to Hoth, put Yslamaris (or whatever you call them) all over the place and about 1000 soldiers and said if Artimer wanted to escape, all he had to do was rp it, which was, of course, impossible.


So a rule, then, was made to where if a person was captured against their will, they could only be held 2 OOC weeks.


However, the difference here is that if that was followed here, Joren would have been "back out on the streets" taking the reigns of leadership over TGC's military continuing to direct the war (which is pretty ridiculous).


Therefore, I would say that one of several things could happen:


A. The Empire release him. or
B. TGC or allies rescue him (which could be a pretty cool rp) as long as TNO understands they are to "lose" their prisoner..lol Otherwise, they may just capture those attempting to rescue and Joren+crew would be back in the same situation.

(insert other's ideas if they want to do a cool rp with TNO)
Personally, I think an Imperial Trial might be cool.. (even if it was a mock trial... mock=unfair).


There may be other ideas, but in my opinion, given his capture, the character of Joren Arden is out of the war.


Now if he wants to start a storyline rp now (setting to be after war, etc..) I personally wouldn't prevent him from that.

However, his capture is now a part of his character history.

I am reminded of a situation way way back when ..back in The Gungan Council days where Itala captured .. I believe it was a Jedi named Artimer when he assaulted the Jedi Temple on Elrood. Basically, captured him and then took him to Hoth, put Yslamaris (or whatever you call them) all over the place and about 1000 soldiers and said if Artimer wanted to escape, all he had to do was rp it, which was, of course, impossible.

Ha! He got off easy there. At SWFans I remember they captured the entire Marzullo family, jamed them each in an idividual escape pod with no power or thrusters and shot them straight towards a sun. Since they didnt actually kill or maim them, they fell inside the rules, and it was only a forgone conclusion they would die, just not RP'd out.

MMMMM....

Operation Long Knives.

Friv'Tan V.

The good ol' days.

Personally. I think the trial idea would be really cool, myself.

I was looking forward to Ahnk facing Hex and Gash in trial, but unfortunatly I was unable to attend and was tried by proxy.

Presumedly.

Ralen. Let me explain something to you.

You are still not allowed to control my citizens. Or my planet. Or the history of my planet.

The "local governor" was not "removed from office" when the Empire took the planet simply because it suits you. You do not make up what happened on the Empire's worlds.

This has already been explained to you, and yet you continue to do it.

You also do not control the deployment of my soldiers or the ammount present. Remember that, if we are to follow the rules to the word, you have zero soldiers to deploy.

I'll take that into account in my next post.

Also note that you decided to post again while we were still discussing the OOC issues that arise from your previous posts. Smooth move.

Your last post.

Edit it.

Now.

You are still not allowed to control my citizens.

I'm not.

Or my planet.

I'm not.

Or the history of my planet.

Again I'm not.

The "local governor" was not "removed from office" when the Empire took the planet simply because it suits you.

I'm filling in the gaps. I find it interesting that you conveniently discard Kamon's arguements, and then come to me with the exact same ones.

You refuse to respond to this RP IC, therefore you will suffer the consequences of such. You want to do exactly what you bug me about doing to others such as Kamon and therefore with the same sword you'll be struck as well.

You do not make up what happened on the Empire's worlds.

You certainly don't.

This has already been explained to you, and yet you continue to do it.

No, you try to explain to me that anything that contradicts you is by default in fault.

However you use the exact same thing against countless others. You did not respond, therefore by your own rules, you lose out.

You also do not control the deployment of my soldiers or the ammount present.

I'm not, I'm controlling the fact that they're laid to waste.

Remember that, if we are to follow the rules to the word, you have zero soldiers to deploy.

No, read Mr. Gevel's previous post about the lack of need for actual soldier manifests.

I'll take that into account in my next post.

Feel free to, though, of course, in one of my posts I did bring in ground forces listed in a manifest, which would shoot your arguement out of the water wouldn't it? If you presume to try to enforce a rule that isn't there, then you'll have to act upon it as well.

Also note that you decided to post again while we were still discussing the OOC issues that arise from your previous posts. Smooth move.

Still discussing OOC issues? A ruling was made, therefore I posted, a day after the 72 hour rule I might add.

Your last post.

Edit it.

Now.

As I was in no way in violation of any rules, I won't. You have 72 hours to respond with the situation that you dug yourself into.

The tables have turned Drayson.

No offense, but Drayson and members of TNO do often change the nature and makeups of their worlds governments in roleplays. It's oft hard to locate such changes, as TNO does so many roleplays that you can not personally read them all. That is why concerning the nature of government or planets it is often best to ask.

Drayson, regarding the last six words of your post...

You are not a staff member. You do not command anyone, OOC.

All I wrote was the logical steps that the Empire took as a xenaphobic regime from canon. There was nothing else to reference so I made the most logical approach.

I don't think TNO even referenced them throughout any of their RPs...I had to fill in some blanks.

Also...my post was written as though they HAD changed the government and replaced one of the alien leaders with humans.

And conviently kept him alive and free?

Get this straight, Ralen. You still do not control my planets, nor my citizens. You cannot simply "create" a character because you find it convient.

Or, how about next time I attack an ORS world, I "create" an NPC that makes the decision to surrender the world?

You do not make up what happened on the Empire's worlds.

...

You certainly don't.

Actually, Ralen, I do. Worlds belonging to the Empire are under our control. We make the decisions, not you.

Got it?

And Raken? Your the one who brought up troop manifests, not me. Either you stand by your earlier claim that they're neccessary, or you stand by your latest that they're not.

Either way, TNO has more soldiers than you.

As I said, you do not control my planet. I see you've gone ahead and claimed that there are few soldiers on the planet.

God moding sure is fun, isn't it?

Again, you posted knowing full well there were unresolved OOC issues with your posts. You god moded throughout your post, you made up BS about what TNO did on their own worlds, and you made up our troop manifests for us.

Oh, and you made up what the Imperial citizens were thinking.

I'm not going to set back and let you do something like that.

You can either edit your post, or I can ignore it completely when I write a response. One of those is more beneficial to you.

And conviently kept him alive and free?

Sure, unless you want me to RP that you grab political leaders of a semi-confederate planet, bring him outside, and murder him.

If you read the RP though, he wasn't "free".

You still do not control my planets,

No but so far it looks like I'm about to be in control of Abregado-rae. I have yet to RP as though I do actually control it in any way but militarily.

nor my citizens.

Again...I haven't.

You cannot simply "create" a character because you find it convient.

I "created" a character because I was moving along the story. An RP you seem to have no interest in participating in, of the 9 posts there you've made three and it's been going on for well over a week now.

Or, how about next time I attack an ORS world, I "create" an NPC that makes the decision to surrender the world?

Sure, do it logically after a period of time that makes sense and I for one won't argue. Hell you do similar things all the time.

The only REAL difference is that I actually design a character with a name you simply say "Well everyone hates you, neener neener neener".

Actually, Ralen, I do. Worlds belonging to the Empire are under our control. We make the decisions, not you.

You misread it.

Allow me to rephrase it so you can understand it then:

You have yet to do anything in terms of Abregado-rae with the exception of strip them of a shield generator. I've been looking, no word or anything about the government of Abregado-rae (I'll admit though that until today I haven't had much time on so I haven't been reading).

As you tell everyone else, you didn't respond, so I did.

And Raken? Your the one who brought up troop manifests, not me. Either you stand by your earlier claim that they're neccessary, or you stand by your latest that they're not.

What claim are you talking about? I mentioned the possibility, which was then negated by Theren Gevel.

You're the one beating a dead horse.

Either way, TNO has more soldiers than you.

Well, they did.

Not any more. Being pounded for hours from the space and then being assailed from the air and then the ground kind of diminishes your troops.

You made no responses. You lost out.

As I said, you do not control my planet.

Militarily, I do so far.

I see you've gone ahead and claimed that there are few soldiers on the planet.

You're right, there are. Most are dead.

At least I didn't say they were forced to surrender and gave up valuable and unmistakeable intell didn't I?

So far the only thing I've done was destroy your forces from elevated positions, disrupt and then jam communications, take out your fighter capabilities, seize cities, rescue some PoWs, allow people to take refuges and begin an assault, the only "dictation" of your forces were those that I destroyed.

You're grasping at straws here. Every post I've made has been within the bounds of the rules and when it was found that I was in err in any matters, I corrected them.

Again, you posted knowing full well there were unresolved OOC issues with your posts.

No there weren't. You and Joren discussed the location of his character (according to him) and pretty much agreed. The staff made a ruling and so, giving you one more day, I waited. When you did not respond within four days, I pressed the attack.

Allow me to be amused though at the hypocracy here when you are still attacing Jan's forces and saying "we will advance because your OOC whining is just that".

My how the tables have turned...again.

You god moded throughout your post, you made up BS about what TNO did on their own worlds, and you made up our troop manifests for us.

No not at all, I just told you you're losing.

That's something you'll have to deal with when outnumbered, outgunned, outpositioned and, quite frankly, out-smarted.

Oh, and you made up what the Imperial citizens were thinking.

Not really. Besides, I recall again Empire's Shadows (Tholatin) and the original Abregado-rae thread where you told them what their citizens were doing and if they didn't like it, tough.

I simply said that people were getting tired of being attacked, it's completely illogical to think otherwise.

I'm not going to set back and let you do something like that.

You're going to have to deal with it Drayson.

I'm not here to bend over and take whatever you like. You didn't have a fleet ready, you took out the planet's defenses, you didn't respond in the alloted times.

You are going to have to suffer the consequences. If you don't like it delete your ezboard account and leave because I don't care what the rest of ORS did, I'm not going to smile and nod and go "Such is the wlil of Bhindi Drayson".

Deal with the fact that your inactivity cost you just as you demand GC does so.

You can either edit your post, or I can ignore it completely when I write a response. One of those is more beneficial to you.

Go ahead, but no matter how much you ignore my posts, you won't be able to ignore when Abregado-rae is removed from the planet list and put under ORS.

Just a little something you'll have to deal with again.

Now as you so amusingly put to Kamon, I believe it was: "Don't whine about the game, play it."

Unless you HONESTLY are trying to convince us that you have a million man military garrison of the most elite troops that have super duper reflector shields that can withstand turbolasers from above pounding for hours and hours and yet you still tried to make civilians fight for you.

Deal with your inactivity and quit pretending to be on the staff. Your rulings are not final, if you want one, ask one of the staff members to do so, but your "ignoring" of what I post is nothing more than a clear sign that you don't believe in what you're saying or you aren't confident in that the staff will lean in your direction.

Also something you might want to note, I didn't set the mindset for the people to be anti-Empire...you did.

but all understood only to well that the terrorists could not and would not accept that Abregado-rae wanted no longer to be a part of the Empire.

That would be an excerpt from your first post. It was uneditted and has gone forth this long.


EDIT: Since you're so particular about my posts, let's see about yours.

(illegal, under the terrorists’ rule)

That's by your own words god moding and deciding what my people do/did! I was never informed of anti-gun laws throughout the Galactic Coalition!

The Empire had no taken these weapons, knowing that one day they would become necessary.

This is implying that Jan's citizens had weapons while under his rule. That's undermining his authority as ruler of that planet!

Only a few were of the Imperial Army, soldiers sent here to lead the Militia and offer the best possible defence against the enemy. The Army, and its vehicles, were waiting still elsewhere.

There's the indication that you did not have Imperial soldiers distributed largely throughout the planet. Your post, not mine.

"Four square kilometres near the city centre." The answer came back from one of the officers. "The epicentre was near the Metropolis Mall."

That's dictating where my forces are firing! (Though that's been solved by staff intervention and a tweak on my posts)

Drevell thought, watching the enemy vessel fire into the city again.

That's assuming I fired more than once in the opening round, which I didn't.

The command centre was shaking as the blasts struck the ground above, and two of the monitors turned to static as the holocams transmitting the images were consumed in flames.

Again dictating my targets.

with massive tracts of resedential land.

Now either you're dictating where I'm firing, or you put military targets in residential districts.

You only have two choices.

As the guns began to fire, so did sound the old air raid alarms. The sirens could be hear across nearly every city on the world, alerting all citizens to the imminent threat of enemy airships and landers.

That's dictating Jan's actions! That's telling him that he put up the old sirens!

"Avra City is reporting enemy troops landing at the air base." An officer reported. "Militia units are moving to counter them."

That's dictating that I was attacking Avra City!

Are you seeing how ridiculous this gets?

The defenders, for the most part, were civilians.

That's you arming and hiding behind civilians. No way around that one, especially with Ahnk's ruling.

The air was calm for a moment as both sides took in the situation.

That's dictating my actions! Who says my men wouldn't run down there and try to defuse the detonators?

They were responsible simply for ensuring that the enemy forces believed that Joren Arden was on the planet still.

God moding and altering of a character - against the rules (but resolved by the staff thankfully)

Enemy troop positions had been allowed to advance nearly to the location of the prison. The facility was set in the midst of a large tract of tall buildings and other facilities.

Dictating my actions. I only said that I was attacking a military base. You were right in saying my intelligence was faulty, but I was not attacking any kind of prison, I was attacking a mlitary base which had a prisoner inside of it - those are not exactly uncommon. To find a military base without a brig or prison is in fact uncommon however.



Do you see how ridiculous your hypocritical nitpicking is? And do you see where your own flaws play in that I have yet to say anything about?

But then, let's not forget that you yourself said that your people were against the Empire:

that Abregado-rae wanted no longer to be a part of the Empire.

Note this hasn't even taken into consideration your other threads.