As I said I am no fan of American foreign affairs. But that is the result of poorly elected leadership.

And the example of which you speak was during World War II, while I sympathize with your grandmother and the other nurse and I believe what happened to her is wrong, but the occupation force was there because the Nazi's and allies were attempting to sieze control of the world, of course there will be an army there.

EDIT: On on the subject with your comparison of California and Germany, that is ludicrous. If American had claim on Germany's economy it wouldn't be plummeting into the ground while Germany's is on the rise. It would be the other way around.

You think so, eh? Freedom is the ability to do as one wants; territorial freedom is to do as a nation thinks is in the best interests of itself. So, let me ask you this: is Germany free to expell immediately for no other reason than it wishes the American military as a whole from its lands? If it is a free nation then the answer is of course yes. However, I guarantee the Americans would fight tooth and nail to prevent such an act including the use of force since they deem those installations so vital to their security. Germany is thus not free.

My comparison is apt, I assure you. The states in this country have a degree of autonomy insofar only as their decrees do not interfere or contradict the national, higher government. So it is the same with Germany. It may act as it wishes only insofar as its decrees do not go against the wishes of the United States.

Yes, Germany was trying to control Europe in order to protect itself. The United States has done the same. Germany was punished for annexing lands near it - the United States raped pilaged and plundered the lands belonging to native indians. Are those lands going to be returned in full? I doubt it. The United States annexed broad swaths of Mexico through conquest - and kept it by treaty, so too did Germany conquer eastern Russian in 1917 and secure it by treaty. Why was ours repudiated when yours was not?

I think the global hypcrisy is laughable. Germany is far from free my friend, far from free. As I said - we only now have the illusion of control, the real masters are across the Atlantic.

I think he wants an example post WW2. Like say... something from the 70's if you have any available? Perhaps the 80's or 90's?

My exmaple is apt enough - that is all that is required. I cannot think of one example where the British Forces acted with such horrible demeanors, nor the Finnish or so many others. The Americans though executed plenty of prisoners. We Germans were certainly guilty of that, especially in the east, but then I have never claimed the moral highground. I am citing the equality of the two nations and the current state of inequality that exists.

There was a march on one of the Ami bases in the 90s - it was dispersed with gas. If we are free and that land is ours, what right did the Amis have to fight German civilians???

My thoughts are simply one I would think a pro-Imperial would agree with:

Vae Victus.

Yes, it sucks, but the conquerors write history. They are heroes and liberators fighting brutal barbarians, seedy peoples, and heartless dictators. I'm fairly sure that if Germany had won WW2, they'd view people such as Roosevelt as subhuman for his unwillingness to fight to defend his ideals and friends. I'm sure if Napoleon had conquered Europe he'd be viewed as the great leader he was, not as some deranged megalomaniac.

And I'm sure if the founding fathers had lost, they'd simply be noted as traitors to the Crown, and just some rebellion of little note.

Of all people, I thought it'd be you who'd fully understand the veil of history and the rights of the conqueror.

I do understand the rights of the conqueror, all too well. I understand what a conqueror should do. He has one of two choices that are senseible and honourable - -as a victor, of course.

Option 1 - assimilate the conquered people into your own society - the British Model - and improve on what they have, making them loyal to you overtime and improving the general society as a whole.

Option 2 - Subjugate the conquered people, take their resources and peoples to your own purposes and make sure they know they lost.

There is no middle ground. If you are going to pccupy, occupy! If you are going to placate, then get out of the war business. I do not like the insidiousness of the American occupation.

Aren't what they do just a twist of Option 1 under your own statements? Them Americanizing? Abandoning their roots? Are they not improving economically?

*sigh*

No - there is either forced obedience or assimilation. The middle ground only breeds revolution from those who know better.

I thought you said they were forcing the Germans to obey or be silenced?

To me that sounds like forced obedience.

Also, Germany hasn't rebelled yet.

Of course not - -most Germans have been cowed into thinking the occupation is good and right.

I suppose I must concede that point however -- Germany has been fully Americanized. The population has been insidiously subjugated, all independence and memory of what it was to be German suppressed on pain of death torture and ostracization.

Kudos, General Marshal and the Presidents of the United States. You have won then.

I know I am in the minority, the dying section of patriots whose number thins with every death of those who know and care of what Germany once stood for. Strength, honour, courage, loyalty, these traits have been stamped out of us.

Perhaps you are right. I am not then, German, for to be Germna now means patsy. LaKeitel, the most infamous of the minions, was but a precusor of things to come.