A similar thread was posted on another messageboard I go to, so I figured I'd bring it up here as well. What do you guys think of revisionism and the possibility of the "holohoax" ?
People who deny the holocaust are generally fairly few and discredited, so no real reason to worry about them - even the president of Iran is, I doubt, not in a position to do much or influence many things with regards to the worldwide perception on the Holocaust.
"You want a real holocaust? I'll show you a real holocaust" *Fires off 10,000 SCUDs into Palestine*
But really, this topic kinds of irks me, because I'm always trying to spread word of the forgotten holocaust of WW2. Just because a larger percentage of Chinese survived over the Jews in population terms, doesn't mean that the Rape of China never happened. Those 40 million dead civilians are still 40 million dead civilians. Personally I blame the Nationalists Civil War in 1947 with the Communism Goverment winning control as to the reason for this being shoved aside and hushed under by the Free World.
I'm not saying it didn't happen, but you have to admit there's a very likely possibility that, while the Jews were indeed persecuted, some of the events said to have occurred at Auschwitz and other extermination camps seem rather exaggerated, and were perhaps intended to be a propaganda tool against Hitler as well as the whole of Germany overall.
I haven't looked through the site very thoroughly yet, but it contains some interesting articles.
That's fine and dandy, except for the fact that many of the things that happened there weren't discussed and circulated until well after the war was over, when the troops stationed there, etc., returned home.
Anyone who is truly wondering about whether or not the things from the Holocaust really did happen should take the time to visit the one of the many musems dedicated to perserving the pictures and evidence from those times. Or if you find that to be too impersonal evidence, take a visit to your local senior citizens center. You will find either survivors or the soldiers who walked into those camps there who can tell you what they saw in person...
Most of the theories about the Holocaust being a hoax hinge around some claim that "the Jews" have so much power and influence that they could manufacture such a huge "misrepresentation" of Nazi activites.
What's often forgotten about the Holocaust is the fact that not just Jews were targeted. Yeah, 6 million Jews were killed, but 7 million other "undesirables" (Gypies, mentally retrded, etc) were also killed in the Holocaust. And you never see the Gypies mentioned as the secret power brokers of the world. :p
I've read "Mein Kampf" and its pretty obvious how Hitler felt about the subject of "the Jews." That alone was evidence years in advance of his intentions if he ever reached power.
Yeah, I'm definately not going to say it didn't happen.
However the Iranian President does have a point when he says that "Western civilization (or Germans, no offence meant to anyone) committed the holocaust, so why is Isreal in Palestine and not in Germany (or some other western country". The obvious answer is that the allies didn't want to give up any of their land to make a new country, so they went to the nearest poor place, said "oh, here's a religious city, we'll give it and some surrounding land to you, and now we're done". But its still kind of stupid that they did that, when they could have saved a lot of trouble (like the whole Palestinian/Isreal conflict) by just creating the country in Germany or something.
About 2,000 years ago modern Israel was the site of an ancient incarnation of Israel called, at the time, Judea, I believe. Rome broke the back of this nation around the first century when they rebelled and the people were scattered.
When Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, all the old Judean holy places became Christian holy places until the arrival of Muslim armies and then both Christian and Muslim fought for the land (Crusades) while the Judeans (or Jews) moved from place to place only to find, in a lot of places, persecution.
So the reason Israel is in Palestine is because 2,000 years ago, that was their home. What the US and others failed to appreciate though, was that the land did not remain unoccupied for those 2000 years and that the people had created a home and a life there. So yeah, they were pissed when they were told they had to move.
It'd be like all the nations in the world coming together and saying they are giving all Native American Indians the land of the continental United States so they can form their own Indian Nation and that all non-Indian residents had to move off. You'd be pissed that you were told to move even though, deep down, you know this land was taken from the Native Americans.
The problem is, you cannot turn back time. You cannot undo the past. You can only learn from it (if so inclined). Otherwise, leave it alone.
The creation of the state of Israel was as much (if not moreso) a political move to ensure (or keep and maintain) US interests in the region than out of any guilt for said holocaust.
While the concentration camps and genocide committed by the Nazi's in WWII was against other races, religious groups and political enemies in addition to the 4-6 million Jews (I forget the number), it is by no means an isolated event.
The purges of the Soviet Union after WWII.
Kraken's example of the Chinese would be another. I read recently that the Communist takeover of the country was aided by the US indirectly. The Chinese civil war was going badly for the Communists and were on the verge of losing all when the US stepped in and halted Kai-shek's advance in lieu of trying to find a "peaceful" solution rather than a military one.
There are probably others.
To say the Jewish Holocaust didn't happen, though, is sheer idiocy in my opinion. But even the truth nowadays does not matter. Now it's all about the media coverage.
If, for the next hundred years, people shout at the tops of the media that it didn't happen, pretty soon everyone will believe it didn't happen. If there are enough websites out there claiming it didn't happen, then soon, people won't investigate for themselves. They won't look for proof. They'll simply mark down a url site and stand behind it, the claim being, if it is on the internet, it must be true or it must be fact. People generally follow the path of least resistance or the path requiring the least effort.
What I am more curious about is the purpose behind such statements. I mean, at first I believe it is simply to gain attention. It is the kind of slap in the face opinion that does tend to get attention. But if, over time, they truly want to bend public opinion to acknowledge that an event that did happen, didn't... I would very much like to know why.
