Sadly, this thread kind of fell apart, namely because Telan and I are very different writers, and Telan doesn't seem suited to long-winded out-of-character debate interdispersed with rulings. Since he wanted out, he retreated, giving me control of the field. According to him, since I 'won', I have no right to complain about the manner he chose to end the thread, as I got 'what I wanted'.

The thing is, he ended the thread by declaring that he slaughtered my fighters, smashed my capitol vessels, and then - left, for some reason. He even procceded to take my boarding troops with him. I questioned him on why the damage I had inflicted last turn didn't apply, and he declared my last post to be null and void - deciding since he didn't want to argue it, he'd just ignore it instead.

Now, I don't want to sound like I'm making things needlessly difficult, because I could just accept this 'victory' and let him be on his merry way, but no. I will not. That is because Telan did nothing to inflict this damage, nor ignore the damage I inflicted on him, and I won't excuse any such issues for the sake of speedy conclusion just so he can mop the floor with the Coalition and go home with some consolation.

I wrote a post, before he began to flee, where I reacted to his attempt to trap me by running alongside the remains of his 'line' formation. To preserve myself from their guns, my fighters (which had defeated his fighters) flew by just shortly after my cruisers, meaning as the enemy guns turned to fire they left themself open to being picked off by speedy fighter guns. This is a strategy, a tactic, one that could be worked and one I employed to make good use of the situation, which means that in all fairness I see no reason why it shouldn't work.

After passing alongside his line, I then wrote of the Coalition ships loosing a great barrage of all their Projector cannons, which would be quite a thing - considering they are the primary, slow-loading, short-range weapons of the Coalition's battleships, a full volley right into the heart of an unshielded ship with considerable hull damage already (Consider that the Boarding Torpedoes would have already torn a dozen holes right through) it was only Telan's promise of his departure the next post that stayed my hand from declaring his Astrus dead in space. This was a tactic I employed to make use of the situation (His Astrus turning to block us, the availability of heavy guns on my side, previous hull damage, his lack of support since the rest of his ships are in a line) and thus to simply dismiss it because he doesn't like it is most unsporting.

The above two paragraphs are my argument as to why he should have suffered considerable damage in my final barrage, the damage inflicted by a Coalition fleet thinking fast. Also, it eliminates his argument that he could inflict great damage on my fleet, as his reinforcements are behind me and are the much slower Imperator Star Destroyers, meaning since they had only just flown into range I would have just flown out of their range. As the rest of his fleet is in no position to damage me, I'm flying away from him, and he's slower then me, this just seems a vague and spiteful attempt to justify his attack by boldly stating that I am crushed.

Lastly is the most important point. In his last post, he tries to crush my fleet AND hyperjump out of the system. Since it took his fleet three posts to get within firing range of the planet from the edge of the mass-shadow, I would imagine it would take three posts to get back - and that's before factoring the damage inflicted by boarders to the Astrus's reactor. I had already established that Maxly and his men were returning to their torpedoes, and since the other two boarding parties were given similar time-tables, I would think them returning as well.

What this ammounts to is that he will have to flee for three battle posts' worth of time before he is allowed to jump out. If he wants to jump out, he has to turn his back to me. If he turns his back to me, then I could move up behind him and tractor the boarding torpedoes back from the surface of his hulls - my ships are faster then him by a good margin, so it would be no difficult task to overtake him well before he could reach the mass shadow, that cannot be said of him however as until he turns his back to run I can just keep moving away from him too fast to catch up, my argument why he shouldn't have inflicted such great damage to me.

To sum up, I believe that A) The Astrus would be critically damaged B) The Coalition forces would not be massacared to a man, as he believes and C) Since he would need to fly out of the planet's mass shadow, I would have time to retrieve my men. I have backed these up with the arguments above. I have written a suitable post that takes into account my various arguments as the 'last post' in the thread, but Telan has refused to either honour it or correct the issues in his last post. We have tried communicating, but he is angry with me and I refuse to just relent and let him paint my forces as incapable and flattened while he escapes illogically.

And thusly, we have the main problem with the new rules. That is, one man's logical point of view is in the eyes of the other man, complete and utter bullshit.

I don't think so strong a language as "Bullshit" needs to be employed, not to mention it is imprecise and vague in it's descriptions. Certainly, the problem here is an inability on our parts to reconcile each other's alternate views of how the battle ended without third party assistance. I explained my reasons here, and I feel Telan's reasons are inadequete, so I continue to disagree with him. Thus, I have posted my argument here in the hopes of a speedy resolution, so that we may go about our business.

This is the second time TNO has pulled this shit.

Simon, reign in your godmoders.

WHAT DID YOU CALL ME?

God moders? How dare you. I have done everything I can to participate and communicate via Pm and Im with Dolash but every time all I hear is my ships are faster and thus better. He has repeatedly ignored the Naval Intrustion System and the fact that his two hundred men the bulk of five thousand - a combat brigade deployed with every Astrus. Not to mention the troops on my Reigns,


I have no guns that would have been picked off by his fighters for any fighter that would have come into range would have been shredded by my defensive banks. Also, I recalled my fighters and ordered in those of my reserve which would have torn apart Dolash's entire remaining fighter contingent.

Hios torpedoes did hit but have not torn gaping holes in my hull. Had they done so, the entire area would have been sealed off and his men never would have gotten anywhyere.

My ships are no longer in line ahead. My last post before departing I ordered my ships to turn to port and stagger their distances meaning that from the Astrus back would have been the ships of the formation, meaning any run along it would have run across the broadsides of three battleships and three cruisers in the first task force and FOUR newly arrived Destroyers approaching and trapping them between the jaws as it were.

Tactical explanation: my ships moved forward toward Tynna through the center of a triganle. They then turned left, the Astrus at the van again with the CHC nehind it to the left and aft, the RSD behind it and so on. It would have been a diagonal line.

His men did not damage the reactor - period. It is heavily guarded and has more laser gates and grav traps than anywhere else not to mention a eactor housing thicker than any armor. No amount of small arms fire could breach that. Also - all of his movements are being recorded and observed and troops are constantly harassing them.

The Astrus and the entire formation oriented itself away from the planet and engaged its hyperdrove - consider that we are still moving at a considerable sublight speed. My fighters are hyperspace capable as well so they came with. Your men would have no way of knowing the ship is jumping to light speed and are now cut off from their torpedoes by counter attack. They are now prisoners aboard the battleship and awaiting execution on Corellia.

The end.

I have tried everything I can to reason with Dolash but he whined about winning. I tried to appease him by pre planning the battle but he did not want that. So when he wins, after complaining about the Coalition never winning and ME HELPING HIM all he can do is insult me and be totally un happy about the battle.

How is this right?

Simon?????

Hahahaha whine more, I think its working.

IMO:

As far as I know, since battle threads are handled just like duel threads, the result of said thread (should it fall apart) is left to each player respectively.

What I am saying is, if both players (in the course of a battle thread) are unwilling to compromise or find equitable resolution then either the thread itself is considered null and void or each member each moves on with the 'results' he or she feels is fair to their respective sides.

The only relevant things I see that happened "in character" are:

The Empire attacked.
The Empire retreated.
Coalition retains planet.

Damage is up to each respective participant.


Whether the retreating ships are considered 25% damaged or 75% damaged, the fact is they retreated from the field of battle. The actual number is really Telan's discretion. Ship damage is only important in as much as it relates to a current battle.

Whether the Empire captures 1 soldier or 100 soldiers or even 0 soldiers, it is really immaterial. Except that it provides Dolash with excellent opportunities should he wish to exploit them should he choose to acknowledge any sort of figure.


Unless this thread's outcome was preplanned, understand that it is going to be inelegant (as it is not a storyline thread). If these threads are not planned out, then both sides must realize the very real possibility of defeat or the thread not turning out as they wish it would.


I will say this too: If you find that you keep having problems in fleet threads then there is a very real possibility that other players will not take part in said fleet threads with you. Your conduct, your reasonableness (or lack thereof), your compromises (or lack thereof) are all taken into account.


Edit: To all fleeters:

Of course, this brings up an interesting situation that might result from this new fleeting environment:

I do not wish members to think that they can suddenly become hardasses in fleeting to the extent that no one wants to join a thread with them. Those people may think that, after being hardasses, if they attack anyone, and when those others do not participate due to the attacker being a dick, the attacker can carry on unmolested and unhindered and gain IC advantage. Quite the contrary, such actions will not be considered part of TRF canon. Conversly, members without legitimate cause that fail to respond to fleet threats can be said to forfeit said action.


As Ahnk earlier stated, admin arbitration can be requested but we do encourage players to work out differences on their own just as they would a duel thread.

I apologize if my contesting of the ending seemed to be rude, or if it seemed as I was unable to compromise - in fact, it only just occured to me that perhaps it would have been easier to have just gone halvsies on the results with Telan - as it was not my intent. I will try to take the experience of this roleplay and use it to improve my conduct in future roleplays when fighting with others.

I would advise, though, that in future battles it really would be best not to have ANY ASSETS AT ALL. Numbering the amount of ships seems not to work, as we spent so long arguing over damage. What we should have done is been vague and imprecise about our fleets, and let those just battle in the background, instead focusing on the exploits of our Characters - like Telan and Ion - and let those determine the battle. Admittedly, this does not appear to be Telan's favoured style of naval writing, which was why we took this methode, but it might help in the future.

We've come to something vaguely resembling an agreement, which we should be able to move on from. The battle ended with the Empire leaving Tynna, Telan being angry at the dishonour of the Coalition (Um... I think I'm talking about the character here), and there being no crazy-lots casualties on each side in the way of cracks in the Asstrus (Sorry, couldn't help myself!) or the Coalition being turned into paste.

I think that, completley eliminating numbers will be impossible, but at the same time, saying, 75% of all Imperial fighters were destroy, etc., is wrong. Saying that Imperial fighters were defeated, etc., is wrong. Each individual fighter pilot has his own unique talent, and just declaring one sides fighters obliterated, etc., due to a R&Ded training standard, a new type of fighter deployed, is BS. I feel that damage to capital ships, etc., should be determined by the person controlling them, letting it be, etc., that they are LOGICAL about the amount of damage inflicted.

I feel that two lessons have been learned here. Telan has learned that space battle can't always revolve around fleet lines and that precise formations don't always win the day, and that Dolash has learned that no matter how fast his ships are, the speed of shot of a turbolaser cannon or proton torpedo is always much faster.

When you say "open" (as per the IC thread), do you mean to staff and others, are just to staff? Because I have some comments after reading the RP, but I don't want to interupt a private(ish) discussion...