Tractoring the Seraphs isn't a possibility for multiple reasons:
1.) By my previous post, the Manticore is out of typical range.
Tractor beams have a much smaller range, which, as you have previously stated in another PM, is 35 kilometers, which is for a heavy tractor beam, which your ships do not possess. Now, converting WEG stats to the 50 km standard taht we have agreed upon for this post, we find that the range for a standard tractor beam is 20 km.
(150/50) = (60/x), therefore x = 20 km.
2.) In the previous post, the Manticore's weapon's energy was fully diverted to its engines. Thus, the tractor beams (and other weapons) would still be have to be completely recharged, which takes longer than what than the time has been given in the post.
3.) When you use a tractor beam, gravitational force is applied to both vessels in an equal amount (linearally, not proportionally). That is why a larger ship is capable of pulling a smaller vessel. However, two Seraphs have more mass than a single Vendetta, thus, by tractoring the Kashan vessels, the Vendetta would be being pulled over to the Seraphs, not vice-versa.
Consider, on top of this, that the Kashan fleet is already firing upon the Manticore's engines. That means 160 turbolasers and 80 Quad Ion Cannons are targetting a single vessel's engine's bank. Moreover, the ion sheathing technology in the turbolasers allows some turbolaser energy to bypass the Vendetta's shields, directly damaging them without having to take down the shields.
In your latest post, a single Vendetta's 6 Heavy Turbolasers, 58 Medium Turbolasers, and 20 Medium Ion Cannons can laid waste to my fleet, taking out multiple cruisers. That's not nearly as much firepower as I am initially dishing out on your vessels engines.
Moreover, a Seraph's defences(armor and shields) are superior to that of the Vendetta. The Ultrachrome armor is thicker than that on your Raptor-class (and the Vendetta-class), which is reflected in the RU value. Linearally, a Seraph has roughly 3.2 RU per meter whereas a Vendettas in contrast is 2.6 RU per meter. That's not taking into account 3D proportions, which would make the Seraph's RU value higher yet in comparison.
There are distance problems with the other Vendettas as well, but they can wait until this is resolved.
As long as everyone is agreed upon the "RU" statistical relevance. Even then, the Seraph make a big deal of being an armored ship of the line in contrast to the Vendetta which attempts to accomplish the dual purpose of Sneaky-Cargo-Bastard and Battlecruiser alike. But again, a Seraph is only half the length of the Vendetta.
Make no mistake... it is a ship of the line. Simply a ship of the line that uses subterfuge to hide its intent. The fact that the Vendetta hides itself has no relavance to the integrity of its hull or viability of its systems.
The best of all worlds then, with none of the drawbacks? I don't mean to be a pain in the rear, but that could cause some sort of conflict. At least, it would with me. This is an issue for another thread, obviously. I was just making what I thought to be a valid observation. No harm done, I hope.
Buddy, you never gave a range between them, you said they were fifty kilometers or so from their origional position, but that doesn't say where the Manticore was or their proximity to it. THerefore, I decided to fill in those blanks myself.
Yeah. Kinda sketchy on the details, and the rules say that I get to fill in whatever you leave out.
a) When I said taht I meant 35kms compared to a 50km range for the regular lasers. Second of all, I know nothinga bout range or sources or anything, I'ts just a number I pulled outof thin air a while ago when I first used a tractor beam against myself
I could divert all energy to just them, and recharge only port weaponry. And once it reached your previous position it didn't need all that extra thrust and could just send the energy back to where it belonged- possibly with a little extra since the engines coudl go into standby once again. And to jump to Greyamacallit ten, you'd have to turn your whole group at least 120 degrees, possibly more, which doesn't happen in a split second
Hmm. I'm not trying to pull you to me, I'm trying to turn. That's really the idea, you outweigh me.
But no, two don't. THree are about equal and four outweigh me. But two are still a little smaller due to them having a smaller volume, not just length.
But two would be enough to start reorienting the ship and bring it around enough for the other three beams, and then lock them on and complete the turn.
You, like you said about me, still have to recharge them after coming out of a jump. You have to drain weapons and shields to go into one, after all. That takes, say, seven seconds, a little less time than it'd take to reiorient the manticor by creating a mini-orbit
Plus twenty proton torpedo launchers- (a note: your starflares are little better than useless in the gravity well where I put you- work on those details)
And I haven't laid waste to you-- yet. I certinly plan to. Here's that part of my post...
A Vendetta is a powerful ship, enough to put up a fight against an ISD and win with a bit of luck. It is by no means weak or inferior as you seem to think (though I admit, I may be mistaken), and the haven there is badly outgunned, drawing about a fifth of the Vendettas fire, though if you have problems with how this got through.
So... (by the scale I've been using)
1 Hvy Turbolaser is worth 600 SBD damage and 1 medium turbolaser is about 150. 1/10th of the Vendettas firepower is
5 Meds adn one heavy is 1,350- not quite up to a Havens shield levels, but close.
But consider this- they know that Corise is on the Haven there, since he was on it before the Seraphs arrived, so maybe they put 1/2 of the available firepower into it.
2 Hvy Turbs plus 15 Meds is 3,450. thats about twice as much as 1800 SBD.
This is about Seraphs and Raptors, not Vendettas. But the Raptor also has Superconducting armor, similar to ultrachrome, but it works on different propertys. But I'm not going to argue about that ship.
Now- I never said the Vendetta had more defenses. But since it's a battlecruisers, it's designed more with shield recharge rate in mind than actual shield strength like most ships, so concievably, it's shields could recover faster than yours.
Don't understand what the point of that last paragraph, or the one that came after it was, so I answered the one on defenses and deleted the last.
Oh really? I'd love to ask Brutus, the designer, just what he thinks about that... Unless by "a bit of luck" you mean... shit, I don't know what you mean,
Be nice Kach. Corise has been nothing but civil in the discoruse of this thread. I suggest you extend the same curtosey. More over, if you want to play a game of exploits... that's fine, but you should be aware that, in reading your contributions, even I can detect some glaring errors that Corise could badly exploit to his advantage.
The river and the bridge move in both directions.
And that brings us to another fun lesson in physics.
Oh, I disagree. Corise, I'm sure, will provide a much more in depth, mathmatical representation of why, doubtless.
Volume has nothing to do with the effect that Corise is describing. Mass, Momentum and Enertia do.
The point is the mass of the two ships combined exceeds the mass of your own, single ship. The only variables then become the direction and speed, the vectors, of the various ships involved.
I must have missed that in the R&D. I must have also missed that from anywhere in the plethora, the multiude of Star Wars resource sites. Can you perhaps explain this little blurb of yours?
Ohhh kay...
You mean posts, right? There is a reason we don't get mired in...
&
... this extrapolating math shit. But you two can if you want to, just keep in mind that it only counts for the here and now. I don't want to see anyone quoting this thread as law for future fleet simulations.
That's possible, to a point. However, the range is somewhat dictated by the previous posts. Your ships have moved from their original positions to intercept mine own. In order to get into turbolaser firing range, that's at least 50 km from your original position. My ships jumped to Greywind Ten, which was 50 km from your original position. That in itself gives only a radius. However, by adding the detail that it was towards the Manticore, that produces two points, and consequentally a fixed line that puts the ships 50 km directly behind the Manticore. If you'd like, I'll make a diagram to illustrate that.
see above. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.
Amazing enough then, it is reasonably accurate to WEG and WOTC sources. However, by changing the range of the turbolasers, all weapon's ranges should be changed to compensate for that.
Charging takes time. Not to be insulting, but have you played XvT or XWA? Charging up the lasers after diverting them takes relatively a lot of time, and that's with a craft whose weapons are less complex and powerful than the turbolasers.
Volume doesn't equal mass in this case. The armor and frame of your vessel is about average. The armor and frame of a Seraph are not; they are very heavy, which is why the ship is somewhat slow. If you read the materials section on the Seraph, you will notice that the Ultrachrome has undergone a process that makes it more dense, and that the frame is made up of the stronger and denser material than average stuff.
No, it doesn't work that way. First, explain to me why my weapons have to recharge after coming out of a microspace jump. I will point out that ships coming out of hyperspace come out with weapons and shields fully charged, ready for battle; as in the case of the Corruptor in "The Bacta Wars" of the X-wing series.
Not quite, Starflares are capable as sublight weapons as well, having a 50 km sublight range standard mentioned in the R&D with speeds of 135 MGLT or 175 MGLT depending if the jammer is engaged. Morever, based on the warhead part listed in the Starflare R&D, each warhead is worth 3 typical missiles. Thus, each cruiser (with eight tubes) can send out of the equivalent of 24 proton torpedoes.
The Vendetta has less firepower than ISD Mk I, despite what the description reads based on weapon's comparisons.
There is a difference between medium turbolasers, and just "turbolasers". The Seraph does not "medium turbolasers", but just "turbolasers". Furthermore, as this official chart shows, the damage ratings are not much higher for a normal heavy turbolaser when in comparison to just a "turbolaser".
Second, where are you pulling those turbolaser damage : shield strength from? From RPG material, we find that in comparison to your own ratings, shields and hull ratings have a higher strength.
Explain. Ultrachrome is superconducting armor, and its canon at that. And you're right, they are different. My armor absorbs your energy and shunts it to one of my own ship's system as I choose it to be.
I'm not following you here. The Seraph was designed as a defensive vessel, built to survive through durability as noted in its R&D. But the definition of a Battlecruiser is "a large warship with longer range and greateer speed and maeuverability than a battleship but less heavily armored"(Webster College Edition). Then, by that definition, your defences would actually be lower than normal, not higher.
Don't bother; we'll get to it after we're done with this.
Beff has brought up other points which are valid for both us. They speak for themselves for the most part. However:
I agree with a certain ancient Roman saying "The more laws a government has, the more corrupt it is". However, I believe that mathematics and quoting official sources ensures that the roleplay is more fair and balanced to both of the players and can thus be used to hammer out differences between the two.
