First of all, I'm going to make a general comment on your speeds and such: G-Canon. Go look at that space battle in epsisode III or one, and tell me if they're all moving at 4000 meters a second (One MPEG accordign to the NIF database). No, they're not.

That is the atmospheric range, not the space range, as you'll discover if you'd look closer. ANd another thing you'd discover is that on TRF, for some reason weapons have a longer atmospheric than space range, such that a weapon with a two kilometer range can bombard a planet (There's several R&Ds like that).

Second of all, --> "The range of the system is a fifty kilometer sphere – which is the maximum range of a heavy turbolaser." That is taken from Telans Conquor-class Star Destroyer R&D, and Telan has been her twice as long as you and me put together, and more importantly, It is a TRF source, which trumps any non-TRF range references.

you don't like that, we could always start and OOC Staff only thread on the issue of weapon ranges.

Your propulsion link doesn't work. But you also must accelrate, adn the value of an MPEG is something that's debatable.

Also, your men woudn't just begin charging away as the Vendettas weapons deployed, though they would probably become more alert since they wouldn't know what's going on. But they wouldn't start running till all the weapons had deployed.

And as I mentinoed in a thread, a single Vendetta is worth at least six havens, with one per ship I can easily see them being picked off in just twelve seconds, let alone thirty. And plus, if you want to turn around too...

They are in close combat with the Starvipers. I think we agree on that.

First: What the hell is a defensive value? Is taht some sort of bargan shopper discount card for black market weapon purchases. A Starviper has about the same shields as a Deathsaber, though it has a more powerful laser armament.

And far more importatnly in a dogfight, it is more ;manoverable, about the level of a TIE interceptor, and far more than a deathsaber.

There is no such thing as a 100% absorbant paint. THere will always be some glare, and they could follow taht and fire at it.

Or, they could hit it as it was silhuetted in front of a ship or the planet itself.

But what they are actually doing is tracking the ships drive trails. You can't hide those at short range- the Vendettas powerful sensors can detect them as they form. At long range it might look like a hapless gas cloud, (You know how things that are far away look like they're going slower even if they're not) but up close they can simply watch the ion streams form and fire at the sources.

And since they're more manoverable, the Starvipers can simply roll out of the way when one's on their tail.

You, Corise, are obviously not a pilot. I doubt you have ever even sat in a planes cockpit while in flight, and if you have, it wasn't a nimble little aerobatic plane or something of the like. I however, am and have and understand how dogfighting works. Go buy Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator three, the best simulator i've seen yet, and fly around for four or five years and then get back to me with what you've learned. Until then don't tell me anything about dogfighting or fighter combat.

The Starflares: your missiles are at a dead standstill when they come out of hyperspace. They also must accelerate. And we could always just... hmm, track them with regular sensors. ISn't that origional? ANd your missiles are 6 km away, so don't try to do your jammer crap, which you stated has a 50 km range.

BTW, a while ago you wanted a range on my shadow bombs and it slipped my mind. But I've remembered recently, and their range is about 5km alone, though if guided by a tractor beam from the launcher or another ship they can go up to 35kms, the max range of a standard heavy tractor beam.

Baptism of Fire (OOC)
This thread is here to address to resolve agruments within this thread, which is getting mucked up in technicalties. Third person opinions about relevant topics in this thread are welcome. I will start by responding to Kach's latest PM.

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First of all, I'm going to make a general comment on your speeds and such: G-Canon. Go look at that space battle in epsisode III or one, and tell me if they're all moving at 4000 meters a second (One MPEG accordign to the NIF database). No, they're not.

I'm impressed that you're familar with the NIF database (I rped there). But it is correct; ships orbiting a planet move around at that speed because of gravity. You're not also taking into account that the camera is most likely moving in tandem with the ships so we can actually see them. This is also discussed in the link below.

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That is the atmospheric range, not the space range, as you'll discover if you'd look closer. ANd another thing you'd discover is that on TRF, for some reason weapons have a longer atmospheric than space range, such that a weapon with a two kilometer range can bombard a planet (There's several R&Ds like that).

Show me.

QUOTE]Quote:
Second of all, --> "The range of the system is a fifty kilometer sphere – which is the maximum range of a heavy turbolaser." That is taken from Telans Conquor-class Star Destroyer R&D, and Telan has been her twice as long as you and me put together, and more importantly, It is a TRF source, which trumps any non-TRF range references.

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Also, your men woudn't just begin charging away as the Vendettas weapons deployed, though they would probably become more alert since they wouldn't know what's going on. But they wouldn't start running till all the weapons had deployed.

Why? We have ships directly there scanning your vessels. There is no reason for us not to charge away as we see weapons pop up.

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And as I mentinoed in a thread, a single Vendetta is worth at least six havens, with one per ship I can easily see them being picked off in just twelve seconds, let alone thirty. And plus, if you want to turn around too...

The Turning around part is true, though that would only add a few seconds which in turn is negated by us moving out already because of being forewarned by the ships scanning your vessel.

I'm going to point out that Havens have higher than normal shields for the size and that it is next to impossible for all of the weapons onboard a single ship to be able to target a single vessel that size.

Now the Deathsabers...

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They are in close combat with the Starvipers. I think we agree on that.

No, we don't. As I stated in the previous PM, I said they fled or they are escorting my ships as written within my post.

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First: What the hell is a defensive value? Is taht some sort of bargan shopper discount card for black market weapon purchases. A Starviper has about the same shields as a Deathsaber, though it has a more powerful laser armament.

For the defensive value, I added up their shield and hull ratings. Those of the StarViper are at 50 SBD shields and 35 RU hull, as found in the NIF database; the link is
here. You'll have to scroll down to find it.

Thus, the defensive value for a StarViper is 85 while that of a Deathsaber is 150.

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And far more importatnly in a dogfight, it is more ;manoverable, about the level of a TIE interceptor, and far more than a deathsaber.

Your vessel is 14 DPF higher, which isn't much, considering that the ratings vary for starfighters from 60 DPF to 175 DPF.

There is no such thing as a 100% absorbant paint. THere will always be some glare, and they could follow taht and fire at it.

Actually, it's been around at TRF for quite a while. Here's an example.
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Or, they could hit it as it was silhuetted in front of a ship or the planet itself.

That is possible, but since they're moving away, I doubt you'll be able to hit it to the point of overwhelming shields, much less destruction.

But what they are actually doing is tracking the ships drive trails. You can't hide those at short range- the Vendettas powerful sensors can detect them as they form. At long range it might look like a hapless gas cloud, (You know how things that are far away look like they're going slower even if they're not) but up close they can simply watch the ion streams form and fire at the sources.

I do not see anywhere within the Vendetta R&D references to abnormally powerful sensors with which to detect that. Even if they did, that doesn't explain why they can bypass the Vanish 2 sensor mask.

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And since they're more manoverable, the Starvipers can simply roll out of the way when one's on their tail.

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You, Corise, are obviously not a pilot. I doubt you have ever even sat in a planes cockpit while in flight, and if you have, it wasn't a nimble little aerobatic plane or something of the like. I however, am and have and understand how dogfighting works. Go buy Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator three, the best simulator i've seen yet, and fly around for four or five years and then get back to me with what you've learned. Until then don't tell me anything about dogfighting or fighter combat.

Actually, I have. I flew a Beechcraft with an instructor at EAA; and yes, I have played with flight simulators, notably XvT. Also, atmospheric flight is much different from space flight because of the existence of gravity within an atmosphere, which in turn dictates maneuvers.

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The Starflares: your missiles are at a dead standstill when they come out of hyperspace. They also must accelerate. And we could always just... hmm, track them with regular sensors. ISn't that origional? ANd your missiles are 6 km away, so don't try to do your jammer crap, which you stated has a 50 meter range.

How does that argument nullify the jammer? It also doesn't nullify the speed argument presented previously.

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BTW, a while ago you wanted a range on my shadow bombs and it slipped my mind. But I've remembered you asked recently, and their range is about 5km alone, though if guided by a tractor beam from the launcher or another ship they can go up to 35kms, the max range of a standard heavy tractor beam.

Thanks. I know that the heavy tractor beam range listed is a WEG stat. How can you use contradicting sources?

TRF R&D Rules:

R&D's are designs for technologies that you wish to use that aren't found in Star Wars canon. Before, most technologies went through a time consuming process for approval that could be fairly frustrating.

Gone are the massive SBD and hull values. Gone are the number of weapon blisters located on the aft ventral quarter. Gone are the MGLT values and number of hyperdrive backups.

Now, all that is required of you is to be reasonable about a design and it's use and no one will care.

No, because ships are moving in different directions and some are clearly moving in opposite directions. Orbits don't work like taht.

I belive I said it took seven seconds to deploy. That's seven seconds they don't know what's going on.

6 Heavy Turbolasers
58 Medium Turbolasers
20 Proton Torpedo Launchers
20 Medium Ion Cannons

The turbolasers are mounted half on each side of the hull, as are teh proton torpedo launcheres. The ion cannons are mounted on the top and bottom of the hull along the centerline, so they can all fire at any target to either side. I say thath's plenty to take down a haven.

But the Havens were fast vessels, soon passing the firing range of beam weaponry, thus limiting the opportunity for either side to damage an opposing craft with typical turbolasers and ion cannons.

They are, but because of that they're in combat above your havens (single remaining one at the end).

Starvipers are said to be as manoverable as TIE interceptors. Taht's 125 DPF.

Starvipers are faster, no problem.

Vendettas are captial ships, and they have far more powerful sensor suits than fighters or smaller cruisers because they're simply bigger, not special.

And we're not bypassing the sensor mask. We're detecting the drivetrails your ships leave behind. We can detect that. It's kind of hard not to notice when an ion cloud just appears out of nowhere.

I meant to say meter, not kilometer, after the 50, and I've changed the quote above.

Gravity exhists outside an atmosphere too, you just go into orbit when you hit orbital velocity and your are continuously falling, which gives you the feeling of weightlessness. It's still there, you just don't feel it at orbtal velocity.

That didn't make any sense. But we're here to talk Genon, not shadow bombs. I just did something I've been meaning to do by telling you tath.

Take it from someone who has fought his fair share of OOC battles:
There is always another argument... another point to make.