I asked you to explain why you believe this, and I have replied to the best of my ability, explaining the problems you have with a few parts of the Bible. Perhaps we could work on figuring out why God is a jerk, rather than just saying he is?
Pat Tilman killed in Afghanistan... by his own squad.
I asked you to explain why you believe this, and I have replied to the best of my ability, explaining the problems you have with a few parts of the Bible. Perhaps we could work on figuring out why God is a jerk, rather than just saying he is?
My explination is at the bottom of page one. Easily numbered in refference to the points you made.
1 - God killed them because they broke the rules and turned their backs on him. The same thing happens here, if you break the rules enough the state executes you or puts you away.
2 - "5 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5. All they did was sin. Take this as you will, but I believe this world was like Vegas at night, all the time.
God did make perfect people. But he made perfect people with a will of their own. He wanted people to choose to love him, and do what he said. He doesn't want an army of blind robots saying "Yes Sir, We Love You Sir, Hail Sir." He wants people to defeat the things that tempt them, and follow him instead.
3 - I'm sure God did know that Abraham was the right man, but I think he knew that everyone else later would need an object lesson. Remember, a few hundred years later Abraham's descendants were slaves to the Egyptians. Isn't "Abraham passed God's test" a better explanation as to why you are God's chosen than "Oh, I dunno, God just knows." Maybe Abraham needed a lesson too. Maybe he needed to know that although there would be hard times, God would always be pulling on his side.
Having multiple wives was quite common in this era of history. More wives meant you were a wealthier man. Women married young, often as young as thirteen or fourteen. Polygamy may be detestable today, but it was accepted back then. (Even though not everyone did it).
I don't know why you think God's teast was sadistic. Do you even know what sadistic means?
Yes, I'm sure God was giggling with glee as Abraham sorrowfully followed his orders.
It was a simple test. God told Abraham, Look, are you willing to give up everything on my command? God had no intention of killing Isaac, because there are only two outcomes. 1 - Abraham refuses, so God goes looking for another fellow, or waits until Isaac grows up. Result: Isaac lives. 2 - Abraham does what God says, and God waits until the last moment, and then stays Abraham's hand. Result: Isaac lives.
I don't think God went and had an orgasm because of the sorrow his request inflicted upon Abraham.
4 -
Aw man, mom and dad messed up with their bank accounts, and now we're too poor to afford to send me to collage. That means I'll have to WORK MY WAY THROUGH!!! Waaaaa, the world isn't fair, *sob sob cry cry*.
:rolleyes
Sins of the fathers extend to the descendants. Think of it as motivation to not mess up, because your offspring are going to be cursing your name for thousands of years.
And I don't know about your group theory, God seemed capable of picking out Noah, and saving him and his family.
Several points here.
a) God created a perfect race of people. Satan 'Poopie Head' AKA The Devil, messed it up for us.
b) God created very few guidelines. There are ten of them, and they're very simple to read and understand.
c) Worshiping God, acknowledging his existence, paying fealty, etc, doesn't make you a good person.
d) God created a perfect people, put us in a perfect world, but he gave us a choice. He left us the option to not worship and follow him. Had he left the tree out, I guarantee that people would be moaning about how God is a dictator, and doesn't give anyone free-will.
No ultimate justice ... ? Ah, you want total anarchy then. :)
2 - "5 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5. All they did was sin. Take this as you will, but I believe this world was like Vegas at night, all the time.
God did make perfect people. But he made perfect people with a will of their own. He wanted people to choose to love him, and do what he said. He doesn't want an army of blind robots saying "Yes Sir, We Love You Sir, Hail Sir." He wants people to defeat the things that tempt them, and follow him instead.
3 - I'm sure God did know that Abraham was the right man, but I think he knew that everyone else later would need an object lesson. Remember, a few hundred years later Abraham's descendants were slaves to the Egyptians. Isn't "Abraham passed God's test" a better explanation as to why you are God's chosen than "Oh, I dunno, God just knows." Maybe Abraham needed a lesson too. Maybe he needed to know that although there would be hard times, God would always be pulling on his side.
Having multiple wives was quite common in this era of history. More wives meant you were a wealthier man. Women married young, often as young as thirteen or fourteen. Polygamy may be detestable today, but it was accepted back then. (Even though not everyone did it).
I don't know why you think God's teast was sadistic. Do you even know what sadistic means?
Yes, I'm sure God was giggling with glee as Abraham sorrowfully followed his orders.
It was a simple test. God told Abraham, Look, are you willing to give up everything on my command? God had no intention of killing Isaac, because there are only two outcomes. 1 - Abraham refuses, so God goes looking for another fellow, or waits until Isaac grows up. Result: Isaac lives. 2 - Abraham does what God says, and God waits until the last moment, and then stays Abraham's hand. Result: Isaac lives.
I don't think God went and had an orgasm because of the sorrow his request inflicted upon Abraham.
4 -
Aw man, mom and dad messed up with their bank accounts, and now we're too poor to afford to send me to collage. That means I'll have to WORK MY WAY THROUGH!!! Waaaaa, the world isn't fair, *sob sob cry cry*.
:rolleyes
Sins of the fathers extend to the descendants. Think of it as motivation to not mess up, because your offspring are going to be cursing your name for thousands of years.
And I don't know about your group theory, God seemed capable of picking out Noah, and saving him and his family.
Several points here.
a) God created a perfect race of people. Satan 'Poopie Head' AKA The Devil, messed it up for us.
b) God created very few guidelines. There are ten of them, and they're very simple to read and understand.
c) Worshiping God, acknowledging his existence, paying fealty, etc, doesn't make you a good person.
d) God created a perfect people, put us in a perfect world, but he gave us a choice. He left us the option to not worship and follow him. Had he left the tree out, I guarantee that people would be moaning about how God is a dictator, and doesn't give anyone free-will.
No ultimate justice ... ? Ah, you want total anarchy then. :)
1. Yeah, but there's a difference. They broke GOD's rules, which he sets and the people have no chance to argue. If, say, I thought it was an unfair commandment that people had to keep god in their minds at all times, who am I supposed to complain to? Gods' Laws are all arbitrarily thought up by him and he seems to enforce them however he feels.
2. Well what if people don't WANT to love him? If he creates people with free will that brings all the consequences that comes with it. We have free will and thus should be free to CHOOSE to like god or not like god as we want. And his actions don't seem to merit appreciation.
3. I know what sadistic means, you just used that word so I figured I could too. Anyways, more importantly, the point is that telling someone to kill their son, and making them go through all the pain which that decision would bring, is just nuts. The government doesn't test how loyal you are by telling you to shoot a loved one, only for you to find out its' filled with blanks. It was a cruel thing to do. And if God needed a precedent, he's God, he could just show up and say something really relevant so everyone'll remember it later.
4. All your points here don't seem to reflect good, just your opinions. Firstly, God seems to be a lot more powerful then the government. So the poor anology is out the window, because a good government is doing what it can for the poor, while God could do exponentially more. Secondly, sins of the father spreading downwards is possibly one of the more evil beliefs in the world. People who think that person A does something, so his son person B can be punished for it are saying that although the children had no ability WHATSOEVER to alter the chain of events, they still recieve a punishment. Totally evil.
Next, God didn't give people a choice. According to christianity, and the commandments, if you don't worship and love god you'll burn in hell. And since a lot of religious things sometimes conflict with peoples' morals, like the Abraham thing, people don't always want to do them, thus he's only given us enough free will and choice to see our choices and know that unless we do exactly what God has marked out you'll be in horrible pain forever.
Lastly, Ultimate Justice is a bad idea. Surprisingly. There can always be mitigating circumstances, or a good reason, or perhaps a future development. Just deciding that someone is good or bad, even if you know everything, is a bad idea, especially if its' irreversible. Mainly because there are no "EVIL" people, but there are people who do things which are wrong, sometimes consistantly and while aware of it.
A little complicated, but I stand by God not being a nice guy.
2. Well what if people don't WANT to love him? If he creates people with free will that brings all the consequences that comes with it. We have free will and thus should be free to CHOOSE to like god or not like god as we want. And his actions don't seem to merit appreciation.
3. I know what sadistic means, you just used that word so I figured I could too. Anyways, more importantly, the point is that telling someone to kill their son, and making them go through all the pain which that decision would bring, is just nuts. The government doesn't test how loyal you are by telling you to shoot a loved one, only for you to find out its' filled with blanks. It was a cruel thing to do. And if God needed a precedent, he's God, he could just show up and say something really relevant so everyone'll remember it later.
4. All your points here don't seem to reflect good, just your opinions. Firstly, God seems to be a lot more powerful then the government. So the poor anology is out the window, because a good government is doing what it can for the poor, while God could do exponentially more. Secondly, sins of the father spreading downwards is possibly one of the more evil beliefs in the world. People who think that person A does something, so his son person B can be punished for it are saying that although the children had no ability WHATSOEVER to alter the chain of events, they still recieve a punishment. Totally evil.
Next, God didn't give people a choice. According to christianity, and the commandments, if you don't worship and love god you'll burn in hell. And since a lot of religious things sometimes conflict with peoples' morals, like the Abraham thing, people don't always want to do them, thus he's only given us enough free will and choice to see our choices and know that unless we do exactly what God has marked out you'll be in horrible pain forever.
Lastly, Ultimate Justice is a bad idea. Surprisingly. There can always be mitigating circumstances, or a good reason, or perhaps a future development. Just deciding that someone is good or bad, even if you know everything, is a bad idea, especially if its' irreversible. Mainly because there are no "EVIL" people, but there are people who do things which are wrong, sometimes consistantly and while aware of it.
A little complicated, but I stand by God not being a nice guy.
1 - Well, let's see. A) God made the world. B) God made the animals. C) God made man. D) God made the rules. E) God made the consequences. F) God enforces the rules.
God owns universe, does whatever he wants with it.
Admit it, God is quite lax about enforcing his rules. You get seventy to a hundred years to do whatever you want; he only gives you the smack down after you die. Compare that to the IRS. They certainly don't wait to collect income tax until you die, they get it every year. Or the FBI. If you kidnap someone, they don't let you off for a few dozen years, they kick your rear now.
2 - You don't have to love him. I don't see anyone pointing a gun at your head saying, "Love God Now." You have the free will to do whatever you want. Compare life to a race. The people who follow the road get to the finish line and win. The people who say, "Screw this, it's so unfair that I have to follow the road" can, if they wish, go cross-country, but they don't get a prize.
As for his actions not meriting appreciation, are you high? Look around you! You have access to the internet, most of the world does not. You have food in your refrigerator; if you're hungry you can go grab a snack. Most of the world can't. You know how to read, write, add, subtract, figure, cipher, blow things up, build things. You have nothing to worry about, your parents take care of you.
Talk about being harassed by a twisted dictator who's only aim in life is to make you miserable, eh?
3 - If I did use the world first, my apologies. The test is perfectly fine. Consider what the job was. Father of a nation, patriarch on which much of the moral behavior of this nation would be based. His actions would be read and studied by thousands upon thousands of people.
There is nothing sick, demented, or twisted about making someone make tough decisions to see how they will deal with situations, Dolash. It is done all the time in the real world. People face decisions like this every day, all over the world. You may not like that people hold the lives of others in the palms of their hands, but it's a fact of life.
God wanted to know if Abraham was the man for the job. He wanted to know if this man, this fallible man born in a world corrupted and tarnished beyond recognition, would be able to follow his commands explicitly. He devised a painful test to see if he would. The test was difficult, but they never are easy when the stakes are high. The future of the Hebrews rested upon this man. The future of hundreds of millions of people.
4 - Why should God feed the hungry and clothe the poor? People have rejected God. Why should God be 'Good' to people who spit on his name, blaspheme his child, and say that he doesn't exist?
Sins of the fathers is not evil, Dolash. It's a fact of life. And it has a flip side. Blessings of the fathers is a fact too. If I slave my life away and build up riches beyond imagination, my children will be blessed with lots of dough. If I slough off, my children will start out on the bottom. Fact of life. Tough beans, deal with it.
I'll admit I don't like the idea, but it exists.
The children are perfectly capable of fixing the problem. It is demonstrated several times in the Bible. Hebrews mess up, get carried off into captivity (Shock, Horror, How Unfair!) and a few generations later they repent for their sins and the sins of their fathers. Then God flexes some God Muscle and are let go. They rebuild their country, and the cycle begins again.
God owns universe, does whatever he wants with it.
Admit it, God is quite lax about enforcing his rules. You get seventy to a hundred years to do whatever you want; he only gives you the smack down after you die. Compare that to the IRS. They certainly don't wait to collect income tax until you die, they get it every year. Or the FBI. If you kidnap someone, they don't let you off for a few dozen years, they kick your rear now.
2 - You don't have to love him. I don't see anyone pointing a gun at your head saying, "Love God Now." You have the free will to do whatever you want. Compare life to a race. The people who follow the road get to the finish line and win. The people who say, "Screw this, it's so unfair that I have to follow the road" can, if they wish, go cross-country, but they don't get a prize.
As for his actions not meriting appreciation, are you high? Look around you! You have access to the internet, most of the world does not. You have food in your refrigerator; if you're hungry you can go grab a snack. Most of the world can't. You know how to read, write, add, subtract, figure, cipher, blow things up, build things. You have nothing to worry about, your parents take care of you.
Talk about being harassed by a twisted dictator who's only aim in life is to make you miserable, eh?
3 - If I did use the world first, my apologies. The test is perfectly fine. Consider what the job was. Father of a nation, patriarch on which much of the moral behavior of this nation would be based. His actions would be read and studied by thousands upon thousands of people.
There is nothing sick, demented, or twisted about making someone make tough decisions to see how they will deal with situations, Dolash. It is done all the time in the real world. People face decisions like this every day, all over the world. You may not like that people hold the lives of others in the palms of their hands, but it's a fact of life.
God wanted to know if Abraham was the man for the job. He wanted to know if this man, this fallible man born in a world corrupted and tarnished beyond recognition, would be able to follow his commands explicitly. He devised a painful test to see if he would. The test was difficult, but they never are easy when the stakes are high. The future of the Hebrews rested upon this man. The future of hundreds of millions of people.
4 - Why should God feed the hungry and clothe the poor? People have rejected God. Why should God be 'Good' to people who spit on his name, blaspheme his child, and say that he doesn't exist?
Sins of the fathers is not evil, Dolash. It's a fact of life. And it has a flip side. Blessings of the fathers is a fact too. If I slave my life away and build up riches beyond imagination, my children will be blessed with lots of dough. If I slough off, my children will start out on the bottom. Fact of life. Tough beans, deal with it.
I'll admit I don't like the idea, but it exists.
The children are perfectly capable of fixing the problem. It is demonstrated several times in the Bible. Hebrews mess up, get carried off into captivity (Shock, Horror, How Unfair!) and a few generations later they repent for their sins and the sins of their fathers. Then God flexes some God Muscle and are let go. They rebuild their country, and the cycle begins again.
I think you should just leave it at that. Though these "stories" are more than just stories, that doesnt mean they happened just like that and broke ten million laws of nature.
And here i am thinking it was commonly accepted that God doesn't kill people. You should all go to my church. lol.
I'm not going to argue with you any more Kas, I have heard your arguments against my explinations and I cannot see how they prove me wrong. My last set of points all remain unbeaten, becuase the points you have made only seem to reaffirm your earlier points.
God isn't a big meanie, and he's not out to get you. He really loves every one of us, and wants us to love him back, and accept all the good stuff he has in store for us.
Read the first four books of the New Testament, and then tell me that God is out to get us. :)
[edit: it is not my intention to argue, either, merely to correct a few misunderstandings you have about the Christian faith.]
Read the first four books of the New Testament, and then tell me that God is out to get us. :)
[edit: it is not my intention to argue, either, merely to correct a few misunderstandings you have about the Christian faith.]
Note: New Testament
Oh and by the way, im not trying to reject the entire Old testament as myths. They should merely be taken with a grain of salt... or two... or three... or four.
Yey, so now we're all happy again.
*does the milkshakey victory dance*
Oh and by the way, im not trying to reject the entire Old testament as myths. They should merely be taken with a grain of salt... or two... or three... or four.
Yey, so now we're all happy again.
*does the milkshakey victory dance*
I have trained Dolash well, Kas. Your Christian propaganda will have no effect on my apprentice.