Boring people and music. It isn't right. They go together like pickles and dog shit yet here it is everywhere I look. In my highschool there was a school band. Most people were just there because they were nerds but some of them could really play. But you know what? They were the most boring people in the world. I'd be suprised if they would've recognized a divergent thought if it was written down on a piece of paper, tied to a brick and thrown at their face. Then there were the emo kids. Now these kids thought they were just the most interesting thing in the world, and they've always been around even though we only recently started calling them "emo". These kids are convinced that their teenage geek problems are the most interesting thing on earth and that all music and art should revolve around them. No. No no no. This is all wrong.

People who knock rock music as "simplistic" are missing the point on purpose. I said this in the other thread, a lot of incredibly boring people play classical these days. They aren't interested in pushing new artistic boundaries or challenging people. People listen to rock because of the passion behind it. It is an auditory punch in the face. Don't consider yourself more of an "artist" because the music you play is structurally more complex. You can consider yourself a better musician, but that won't save you from, at the risk of sounding like Kierkegaard, being a terminal bore. Sometimes there's more art in shocking someone than singing them a pretty lullaby.

You could teach a monkey to play an instrument if you waited long enough. You could definitely teach a computer to play an instrument. No offense to those of you who have devoted a lot of time to this but that pretty much narrows your usefulness in terms of perfectly playing classical music. Passion has to be tempered with forethought obviously but the point remains. I like Bach. Everyone likes Bach. But I have these recordings see. And when I want to hear his work I put them on. Show me something new. Play the music onstage while a picture of the president is slowly lowered into a ten-foot tall vat of urine. I don't care.

The "boring" anecdotes above though apply to a number of different contemporary styles of music. The Dashboard Confessional "emo" craze is a good example. This music is not interesting. Nobody wants to hear this. This is not challenging and not artistic. It is boring. The people who make it are boring and self-absorbed and boring. HAVE I MENTIONED HOW BORING IT IS. There is nothing new going on in this scene; it's just a bunch of kids that feel very sorry for themselves because their girlfriend left them, or they never had a girlfriend, or their dicks are small, or whatever. Angst in music is nothing new, but overdriven, contrived emotion like this is actually nauseating. When you make Morrissey look happy you have a fucking problem.

Now, I am not talking about Rites of Spring (though really, go back and listen to your Rites of Spring albums, they're not that good). You know the bands I mean. Taking Back Sunday, Thursday, A Static Lullaby, Dashboard Confessional, The Ataris. And their thousand clones on Epitaph, Victory, Vagrant, and Fat Wreck Chords. They're all a bunch of skinny white guys with dyed-black medium-length hair, vintage t-shirts. Probably Mesa Boogie amps. Definitely on the Warped Tour. (Which is a fucking joke by the way, don't ever go not even to see Weezer or something.) There are too many of these bands. And if anyone can remember the label that The Weakerthans are/were on, that label too. It fucking sucks, except obviously the Weakerthans who are alright in my book.

Nothing has progressed in this wack shit screamo/emo/Fat Wreck genre since it started and nothing is going to. It's worse than ska was a couple years ago. These kids are so seriously into themselves it's almost comical to watch them getting all worked up to the sound of four chords (yes, not three but four, god damn we are so much cooler than Pennywise) and their pre-pubsecent voices cracking. That's not interesting. If you met these kind of guys in school you would either ignore them or beat them up because no one wants to be around people like this. These kids need to get over themselves and their shitty teenaged problems, because I guarantee you my life is ten times worse than any of these kids', yet I'm in an alt/indie band.

Christian music is another example. No offense Kas but from what I've seen, most of the music that people like you play is pornography for religion, in objective and appeal. It is a vessel for the religious message it carries. Look up the textbook definition for pornography and replace "sexual arousal" with "religious feelings" and you've pretty much got contemporary Christian music. Pornography is an artistic void designed to cram as many tits onto screen in the designated time period as possible. Christian rock is an artistic void designed to cram the words "GOD", "JESUS", "HEAVEN", and "CHRISTIAN LOVE" as often as possible into a 3:30 song. Or sometimes more ambiguous terms. But that's a commercial move and I doubt I even need to comment on that.

And again that's not to say that Christian music can't be good. The key is, "Can someone who does not subscribe to this ethos enjoy this music?" And in most cases the answer is no. Is this person preaching to me? Is this message empty and trivial? Is it ripped straight from the Bible? I have six copies of the fucking Bible, if I want to read the Bible guess what, I will read the Bible. Does this music present original thought? Or is the message so wrapped up in self-absorbed candy-coated bullshit it could be played in church? That's not challenging. I don't want to be told that Jesus loves me. I don't care. If you are a Christian, you already think this. If you aren't you don't give a shit and you certainly aren't going to be converted by this sort of tripe. And don't give me that "Oh But This Person Disagrees Very Much With The Current Administration in The [Insert Sect Here] Church" crap. Yeah right. I'll bet the Bishops are meeting right now to discuss what will be done about this troublemaker who is out there recruiting and brainwashing kids for them.

So the question is then, "Where is that good Christian music you mentioned?" Look no further than Sufjan Stevens and his new record, Seven Swans. This good Christian boy from New York actually makes some interesting tunes. What's more his lips are far enough removed from his supposed creator's ass that he's able to speak in full sentences. Do I agree with him? No. Have I been converted to the love of God and Jesus by his faithful hymns? No. But then he didn't set out to do that. His songs are interesting enough to hold my attention though. Even Pedro The Lion occasionally puts out something interesting to listen to (that EP from awhile back whose name escapes my memory comes to mind), though more often than not it turns out shitty.

The point is that I'd rather see myself burned in effigy than listen to someone assure me that it'll all be okay. I want something new. I want something that will run down from the stage and beat me about the face and neck with it's penis. And I don't want it to be ska or emo or anything stupid and derivative like that. And I don't want you "classical" kids to keep dwelling on how awesome Bach is. Something new please. Now.

Well, I know nothing about music, but maybe that's a good thing when reading someones' writing. I must say Gash has a very compelling argument, I'd never noticed that about Classical before, it is in fact mostly repetition of old music and following some sort of musical rules or strictly designed style. Also, his other points on Emo and Religious music (which meld together into the one point: That repeating the same styles are rather boring) makes sense.

Am I getting at the point correctly? Is what you're saying that musical repetition of the same styles and feelings redone with modified sound bad music? I think its' what you're saying, which is a very agreeable stance. Repeating any old themes in things is boring, which is why running gags get old in comedy. I don't know what Emo is, but I can surmise that if religious music is anything like religion, then the repetition of core beliefs must be widespread and would thus probably result in bad music. Its' not like they go around changing religion much, so there's only so much one can put in the music to begin with, and from there I imagine its' quite common for several topics amongst the limited choice to be repeated.

P.s. Did you get my e-mail?

He's saying that anyone who sings/plays classical/emo/religionfanatic music has a small penis and should be put down.

I do not think that is his meaning. I believe that is a jump to conclusion, based on no actual evidence.

I think that indeed the world of music is tainted with thousands of un-emoinal players who do nothing but play out of tune and poorly. Often, these people are being forced by their parents to play music by their parents, who think that it is actually a good use of the kid's time, so long as they arent on drugs. I think they could learn to play musically, but they also usually have horrible teachers too. (I hate you, Lee-En, or however you spell your name.)

Me, I'm in music because i like to play, i like to make beutiful music and impress people with it. Even though it sounds sucky online, *laughs*. One of the things people (masterclass teachers, etc.) often say to me is that im musical, and grasp the emotion of the piece beutifully and are enjoyable to listen to, and that i play with (shut up) passion. Of course, then they go on to say that im sitting wrong and that i move my head to much when i play and that i should do this bowing here and that pitch was flat. And of course, they all offer very good to advice such as Dr. Levington, who tought me the entire history of the Sissiliana so that i would play it more like it was written to sound ... but anyway. (I'm not trying to brag... really.)

Of course, its very typical Gash to smash christian music in particular, even though must of it is horrible, shallow, and fundamentalist.

Most rock IS simplistic, though i suppose i agree that that isnt the entire point. There is rock that i like, too. They might be Giants is a cool band. And Toxic Audio is AMAZING, even though they dont really count as rock at all.

Barry green had a very good point when he said that school bands dont HAVE to be a farm for sub-average musicians. His method of teaching works really well.

About the new music. I agree. Though i still love old classic pieces, and there are soo many that they just cannot all get old. Ever heard the song "Julie-O"? thats an AWESOME song. There are new-age classicalish composers out there that do a good job.

Oh, and good Christian music, DEFIANTELY "Jesus christ, Super star." I LOVE that...


P.S. And thanks for posting, gash.

Please kill yourself, milkshake.

Gash, you truly amaze me with your stupidity.

What did he say that was stupid? What exact point? He seems to be thinking a lot. An above-average amount. He provided a logical theory that was based on entirely agreeable points. I don't see any argument to prove he's stupid. In fact, such a well articulated argument in favour of his stance would be rare from a stupid person.

*EDIT* and don't pick on milkshake. The guy had a polite, friendly opinion to give, and contributed to the coversation. Of the two of you, if I had to pick, I would choose you to die, Hyfe, many times over before I would so much as consider Milkshake.

Sorry Kyric, you're right, the music you like is the best music in the whole world and all criticism to the contrary it illegitimate. The only form of art is your art and you are the greatest person in the world with the biggest penis and the most musical talent.

No wait, what I meant to say was shut the fuck up, you piece of shit. Haha.

Brilliant. I quote

"You can consider yourself a better musician, but that won't save you from, at the risk of sounding like Kierkegaard, being a terminal bore."

You contradict yourself, so shut the fuck up.