If you thought this was going to escape my notice, nice try Isstal.

If I recall, our agreement about Panacea was something along the lines that it was good, but not perfect in the disease-fighting respect. Now all of a sudden we've got failures en-masse and 'refugees'??? I mean, in propaganda - sure, you can say whatever you want, it's propaganda. But I was under the impression that you were the one making stuff up, and I was the one trying to fight a politicized issue. As in, that was what was 'really' happening, behind the propaganda.

The GC would not have 'made up' doctors saying it was working or the reports, nor would we have been blind to things like failures, or court-dates (I read your thread too, Rico, I'll get to it in time). Exploiting what was supposed to be an interesting, story-like thread to provide flimsy evidence to your case does not help. 'oh! there was no testing! so that means it sucks!' I didn't WRITE about the testing because it was boring. We can assume that after Regrad left there was more testing and stuff, I left a gap between finishing the RP and posting in the IC News forum in hopes of leaving adequete time where the rest of the preparations could have been completed.

Anyways, if you want to talk about Panacea, fine, but as a writer I have control over what I've created. You don't see me saying 'Good thing these new star destroyers were built with this fatal flaw because they weren't adequetly tested! Now I can blow one up by hitting the great big weak point!' so I don't think it's right for you to say 'Looks like your Panacea was - despite everything you wrote about it in RPs and the R&D forum (a place where lying and propaganda is NOT welcome) - an abject failure! OMG!'

At most, I will allow that it is well within the Empire's power to 'fake' the problem, make up false refugees, horribly maim people then torture them until they think GC did it or something.

Oh, and your presence is requested in 'Business of Business'.

Man has a point.

However, I'm not sure what Dray is doing, so I'll let him defend himself before I get on his case, but preliminarily, it's pretty greasy.

Oh, and Dolash, are you ever going to edit, or did you want to abruptly insult my highest ranking dignatary?

Your Star Destroyer analogy holds no weight. Starships are built on known principles with known technology. Panacea, on the other hand, is 100% new technology. The Coalition has had zero exposure to it, meaning that all of the designs etc. are new.

Hence, there are going to be flaws.

You're entirely welcome to not write about the testing phase because its boring. But that means I am equally welcome to exploit your lack of testing! You didn't RP testing, it didn't happen.

Furthermore, if you'll notice, the test I've focused almost exlusively on is a time test - what will happen to someone injected with this drug after a month, a year, ten years, etc.? This is one reason why in real life the FDA takes so long to approve drugs.

If you'll notice, there are no mass refugees from your space, nor is there any epidemic. There is one case of Panacea gone wrong so far. If you're going to try and argue that Panacea is 100% entirely infalliable, then you're insane. And so far, that's what you've been arguing.

That Panacea is untouchable.

Why? Because you wrote a 500 word RP and a 500 word, vauge description of it in a couple of forums. And now you tout that as if it makes your R&D the best thing since velcro.

It's not.

If you're not going to give you R&D due time IC, then I can and am going to exploit that. Your loss, not mine.

Cheers.

Nevertheless, your argument is very flimsy in that it relies on things varying from perception to assumption.

Did you write your character going to the bathroom today? No? Well, that would be most unfortunate, I imagine by now they must really have to go. What's that? You assume they're using the toilet? Well, that's a relief.

A lot of things are done by assumption in an Rp environment, especially BORING things. I only wrote about the key, interesting, story-like point in the development process because it's the closest thing I could think of to an RP-worthy idea. Are things tested? Yes, we assume so, because that is a regular part of the process. Just like, say, remembering to procure funding. You don't say every single little thing going on, you do enough that a reasonable individual can read the story and get a feeling of what is going on, be able to fill the gaps.

So saying that we don't know much and it's poorly tested is not within your realm to assume, since the R&D is not your own, meaning I have creative control. You can exploit a weakness if I reveal there to be one, or some such thing, but you cannot assume there is one because you find a logical route where one might exist and I have not closed it.

For example, say you were inventing some new Super Star Destroyer, bigger and badder then any other. It would be unfair of me to decide that since you didn't detail the electrical system, there could be this fatal flaw that makes it possible to disable the ship if you hit a certain fuse-box point. Perhaps later, if you were discussing the electrical system and let slip some detail of weakness, or did not add adequete protection, then sure, I can use the flaw.

Anyways, moving on to the second point of your argument. To say that the Panacea is infalliable is indeed false. My personal knowledge in real life of the medical profession is not vast. I was under the impression that most things seen as 'medical' problems were of the bacteria, virus, tumor, or infection variety. As I live in a western society in a fairly sheltered community, it is a reflex of me to leave out things like malnutrition, genetic disorders, or physical injuries in this label, assigning them to other such labels instead. When I stated it's abilities, as I have already clarified, I meant it prevents disease and sickness, which I thought made up the majority of medical problems and thus 'most'.

As for the risk of it going haywire or breaking down, it is true that this is relatively new technology, but in a galaxy such as this it is hardly on the cutting edge of science. If anything, in the Star Wars galaxy it would seem like nothing but a matter of time until someone were to put together the necessary pieces to do something like this. Just watch the movies, and you will see the nature of the miraculous things they are capable of. As a security measure, I have before said that the Panacea droids implode if they suffer any damage or accident, that they are not hive-minded so a problem with one will not affect the others, and in other words present no real threat to the individual. Although I cannot forsee how they would fail, even if one were to the damage a single one could do before the average sentient could seek medical treatment would be little indeed, and the chances of all breaking down would be about as likely as all the particles making up a star destroyer deciding to go in different directions at the same time.

What you are doing is not roleplaying, it is not strategy or trickery, it is exploitation, you appear to be taking advantage of lax rules - rules that rely on the honour system to function - to defeat what you perceive to be an advantage. I duly gained this, and you have proceeded to use everything within your power out of character to halt it. I'm fine with you taking it on in-character, wether by trying to defeat it with propaganda, or illegal means, or something really sinister, but this out of character assault is, as I see it, petty. I don't mean to sound rude, as I know I must, but if I am to be honest I must state how I truly feel and perceive this situation.

Okay, this is going.. somewhere... quick.

The issue obviously needs a staff discussion. Until that discussion occurs, keep it civil, citizens.

Again, Dolash, your comparison lacks weight. Using the washroom is a basic and neccessary part of life. We know it happens. You are not writing a story, you're designing a new and innovative technology.

And claiming that because you thought it was 'boring' you didn't bother to write about key parts of its design. Like, for example, testing. This is not something we 'assume' happened, this is something you didn't do. And that's aass far as it goes. In fact, judging by your RP directly, there is no room to consider that testing has been done. The final product is designed over a period of a day, and injected into Regrad the next morning. And then the RP ends.

Not even a single allusion to any sort of further tests. It looks to me as if you're realizing your mistake late and playing the 'commom sense' card. Which, I have to say, I consider highly ironic.

The fact that your population seems to trust you 100% so shortly after a massive and destructive war goes against common sense. In reality there would be huge divisions between your people. But we live with that.

Now, I have to say, I don't see what the problem is. I've exploited one case in which Panacea failed to work properly. If you're going to say that there would never be one such case, ever, thenI have to call you crazy. That's totally ludicrous.

And while you might argue that such problems would be handled by your health department, this is a population of billions. Certainly many would go to you, but you must be ready to admit that one out of these billions might come to the Empire. Why?

Any number of reasons. He was influenced by the Empire's propaganda efforts comes to mind. And the Empire's propaganda efforts are huge. Or maybe he didn't even come to the Empire - maybe he came to Belderone because it's one of the largest and most respected medical institues in the galaxy (as established by previous RPs).

All in all, I find your arguments lacking in susbtance. In all realism, there would be problems with Panacea. And the Empire would know about them.

This is not an attack on you, nor is it an attack on Panacea. I'm not trying to destroy the R&UD - if you want to use it in your space that's fine. I'm building on TNO's propaganda efforts to a) completely ban it in TNO space, and b)P engineer my own, more effective version. I'm not going to go on some sort of rampage and demand your R&D be nullified, or claim that it kills everyone who is injected with it.

I am going to determine problems with it, based on what you've written. Not what I assume, but what I see written. I am going to continue to attack it through propaganda, based on real IC research. Your failure to provide any real sort of RP gives me room to exploit that.

but you cannot assume there is one because you find a logical route where one might exist and I have not closed it.

With all respect, yes, I can. Your Star Destroyer example doesn't hold weight because you were never given the oppertunity to board and totally deconstruct said R&D. You opened Panacea to anyone who wanted to play with it, and I've done nothing more. If you hadn't given Panacea out as such I wouldn't be where I am - I would be trying to steal Panacea to test it.

Yes, this is exploitation. You clearly care about Panacea, but evidently not enough to RP it or provide any real basis for its technology. Your arguments seem to be based on "I'm the writer, I can do what I want." Which is true, to an extent - this is a creative domain. But that has to be balanced by common sense and realism.

I don't think you're being realistic. I'm conducting what I think is a very legitimate and realistic examination of your R&D. The basic premise - that it works, for the most part - remains intact.

So I really don't even understand what the problem is.

As an aside, if this whole thing is derived for you to steal Pancea, I find it highly suspicious and lazy. It would be similar to one of my malfunctioning spacecrafts suddenly crashing on Corellia.

If this were the old R&D system, I would take a huge shit all over that play, but since it's more relaxed and... given the nature of the R&D's main application as non-millitary... I'll just say that I smell fish and for once I don't think it's Ren.

I just have one favour to ask of Rico/Drayson/someone who might do this, or a similar thread, in the future. Next time could you please put GC in the title, or at least tell us somewhere that the thread involves us. While neither of them are technically an attack, they both involve our faction and we should be informed. However if you have done something, such as like sending a PM to Dolash and I just don't know about it, my apologies I was unaware of this, but it just seemed to me that neither of you had informed us about your threads and I know I wouldn't have checked them except Dolash mentioned them.

As for the rest of the thread, I feel that Dolash understands this more and is more suited to argue about it so I'll stay out.