There have been issues with Salotai, and I think it would be best to politely describe them in public as a community. I am not here to get my own way or beat people to death with logic, but I feel is I have been wronged in how some of this has been handled.
For starters, I usually don't have a problem with people taking planets, and I don't like to interfere with them. In fact, this is the only time that I know of where I have uwanteldy interfered and stayed with my post. But I am obliged to interfere when someone creates a planet and puts in the middle of a trading route. Wes, if you want the planet, I have no problem in giving it to you if it is moved somewhere else where it won't interfere with the internal workings of the Confederation.
As soon as I was informed where Salotai was going to be placed, I interfered and posted...and the next post immediately took place in which I did not have a reasonable chance to reply to the ongoing actions. And moreover, some of the statements within the said post seem somewhat unrealistic to me. For example:
There seems to be a slight problem in here in roleplaying the leanings of the populace in a supposedly neutral planet. Enough so, that am I suggesting that possibly a moderator, staff member, or other neutral party should RP neutral planet's governments from now on.
If TNO and the COnfederation cannot shortly work out an agreement as to how this mediated, I request a staff arbitration of the matter. I have full confidence with the staff's capabilities, and will abide by their rule without a complaint.
By trying to take a planet along a Confederation Trade Route, you're essentially cutting off a supply route. Many people would consider such to be an act of war, and are fully wihtin their rights to debate the matter.
Also: If you're going to slaughter all the Confederation supporters, do it with your own troops like an Imperial should.
Corise, I did no more than what you did on New Holstice or Valinor. Those planets, supposedly 'neutral' as you claimed, leaned heavily towards the Confederation government and hated the Empire. More reasonable? To your mind, maybe. Not to mine.
The point was made in the thread - long before you were involved - that the population of the planet leaned heavily towards an Imperial government. Vaseli made that post, and several others that implied that same idea, over a year before you were involved.
And Corise, the point of the planet is to interfere with the internal workings of the Confederation. You've called down the thunder; well now you've got it. You want war? Bring it on.
Another issue that wasn't mentioned by Corise is his massive retconning in his post. Not only did he ignore three-quarters of what Vaseli (who started the thread and created the planet, by the way) had written, but he interposed himself as having been there from the start when he entered the thread after three posts and nearly 2000 words had already been written.
However, in my post, I did not respond in kind. I did complain to him over AIM, and his PM back made it clear that he would not change any of his retcons. I therefore decided to work with them. I allowed the government to be pro-Confederation while still keeping Vaseli's - and my - idea that the vast majority of the planet was pro-Imperial, and that most of the military was as well. I didn't act as though his ships weren't there - I just had the Salotai military order them to leave. Corise is perfectly able to stay - the Salotai people will just fight him. He won't be able to take this planet like he does every other one: 1) The people love the Confederation and hate the Empire, 2) He arrives and gives them free stuff, and 3) They vote to join the Confederation. That doesn't work all the time. He'll have to fight if he wants this planet, and if he does get it there will be resistance; in fact, the people and military have already pledged to fight him to the death, and the new government - an ex-Imperial - has already told the Empire that they want to be a part of it. Corise, you're more than welcome to respond however you like. But note that I have done no more than you in any other thread.
@ Irtar: At the time of the thread's beginning (and subsequent ending, since the entire thread happens over a one-two day IC period), it was not along a Confederation supply route. Secondly, even if that was, we have no qualms about going to war with the Confederation; actually, after Corise's latest OOC crap, I wouldn't mind it that much, and if you notice Desaria declares unofficial war in the Salotai thread.
As for your last comment, I hope that was a joke. Otherwise it reinforces the misguided notion that the Empire is all bad.
And I don't slaughter them all. Some are murdered, others beaten, but most have the good sense to stay inside and lock the doors.
Its taken a few generations to change that, now we just corrall our less reputable members and call them the SS.
*moving on*
The location is a little convenient an I would be lying if I said our intentions were pure and innocent. They are not. Our actions are a blatant attempt at getting the upper hand in a strategic sense by placing an unclaimed world along the path of advance taken or projected to be taken by our enemies, the Confederation.
This action is in itself a reaction to other near-god-moding things that have happened of late and General Vos has acted on my orders to let slide. However, as the scales continue to tip through my enforced sense of fair play, I have taken the General's leash off.
Admittedly, Corise, you have taken these previous worlds with ease and governments that are strangely sympathetic to the Confederation cause. However, as stated, the Empire is a far cry from the brutal oppressors that we once were which calls to mind the question - if the Empire isnt as bad as it used to be, and pople know this is more than propganda, than why would these people be so hateful to us?
Thats a question for another time, perhaps/ Just another coincidence.
I have not followed this entire chain of events as closely as I should have but rest assured I will now. Suffice it to say the world is Imperial. Now. You want it, I welcome you to take it from us. The Guard, and the SS, will be waiting
1. The creation of planets is not forbidden. Nor is the placement of said planets up for debate if (and this is the important part) the Role Play supports its chosen location.
2. A member may not request 'relocation' of said planet unless it conflicts with the rules or the Role Play is not supportive of its location.
That said... the creation of a planet with a pre-existing populace would have some impact on local culture, economy and so forth. If the Role Play supports these factors and takes them in to account as such, it is acceptable. However; if a member creates a planet and places it in a position that jeopardizes canon or TRF history, and does not work it as such, the Staff may be called upon to create an injunction.
So...
Precluded is the creation of a planet of any pre-existing worth under such a circumstance. Basically anything beyond the attempted colonization of a dead body would be culpable. The planet cannot rationally be expected to be of any worth, particularly along such a highly traveled route, as any such value (technology, assets, culture, etc) would indicate a high detection factor which would impact its "sudden" discovery.
As long as these factors are observed and acted upon, the issue is moot. However, if any of these mitigating circumstances (or various others) are compromised, so too is the Role Play itself and may be subject to Staff mediation.
I have not read the story in question and cannot comment in detail, but these notations should provide sufficient guide-lines by which the members involved will hopefully be able to achieve an accord of their own.
Wes: By now you should have a pretty solid idea of what is going to be tolerated and what is not and I am trusting that you have not acted in a compromising fashion in these matters.
Corise: You also should have a very solid understanding of what your rights as a member are, as well as those allotted to others playing from competing perspectives to your own.
Wes & Corise: You are both adults and I expect you to be able to work out your differences without Staff interaction. However, if you are unable, and the Staff are called in to act as a result, rest assured that we will find a middle ground - and that resolution will be the most 'fair' solution we can achieve and one in which neither party gains full satisfaction.
To Everyone Else;
Your opinions are your own. Keep it that way. We do not need this to digress to a flame war, or to become the subject of an intangible debate. The issue at hand will remain the issue at hand. If your opinions diverge from this issue, your comments may be ignored and Beff may be irritated. If your comments are relevant to the issue at hand, post them with caution.
Just to respond to this quickly, I think I have fallen within the rules on this one. The planet is out of the way as far as canon stuff goes. It has a repair yard that can take something the size of a Star Destroyer, but only one at a time (nothing on the scale of Bilbringi or any other canon shipyard planet). Vaseli and I came up with a decent history for the planet before his first post, one that placed it within canon history but not as a prominant factor, and one that explained why it favored the Empire over a descendant of the Rebellion or NR. Yes, it is somewhat wealthy, but not extravagantly so. So I think it falls within the rules in that respect.
