Drayson, I'm pretty sure we're fighting over Contruum now - even if it is through operatives - meaning that I think I should be allowed to, say, keep pace with you. Skipping ahead a few days runs the assumption that anything I could do in that time would fail.

Also, another point, but get this - sometimes we don't screw everything up. We get a few printouts, they happen to be doctored. We make a casual stop at a busy crime scene, and the people there manage to quickly and efficiently find out that just one investigator was a fake and report that information - despite the pretty clear impression in my writing that that would be unlikely. If I hadn't specifically mentioned Contruum, I imagine you would have declared I had landed on the wrong planet too.

To sum up, I'm pretty sure TRF was built on the principle of everyone being given a fair chance to succeed and some sort of equal system whereby writers can focus on out-witting one another, and not just try and hurry their work along so that they succeed before the other person has time to stop them. If I wanted to, I could have posted two times in a row in a very brief time period to get more done as well. I request you remove your second post, at least for the time being, and that the print-offs I got were accurate, since you can't doctor everything, they must have had the actual information on hand somewhere, and there was no real reason for the guards not to give him the real stuff.

Define "casual stop". You're agent basically showed up and took far too much time explaining that no one else was to hear about this, period. You also took it upon yourself to declare that the officer you spoke to was low level... but he also has access to information that would (presumably) be secure?

TNO launched a very in depth investigation into the bombing. Irregardless of whether the officer tells anyone, we're going to know you where there. Calling up the files in question would trigger a red flag of their own accord.

Part of the TNO investigation is to find out who the terrorists are, who they're working for, etc. To that end they will do everything in their power to find out. They wouldn't likely let accurate information fall into terrorist hands, would they?

What right do I have to say the information is doctored? Well, about as much right as you have to more or less define how my investigation is being run, and as much right as you have to, in one post, without my input, gain access to information that, IC, belongs to TNO.

*shrug*

Yes, I'm well aware your investigator is a fake. Why? Because TNO is running the investigation, and TNO knows they didn't assign anyone from ISB to go down there and get the documents.

You're to be comended for trying to use Intel actively in an RP, but you're giving yourself far more power than I think you would actually have. Imp. Intel is an old, galaxy spanning organization. But CIB is brand new, and they seem to have the ability to do anything.

How does CIB even know what an ISB badge looks like? Not arguing the use of a forgery, but something to keep in mind.

With regards to my posts: that's certainly acceptable, but it makes very little difference as to the direction the roleplay takes (imo). I'm well aware its perfectly legal under the rules, but you are interfering with a plotted takeover, and to be perfectly honest, I don't like it. If I was invading a planet outright it might be fun, but this is something far more subtle, and you're entering the picture, seemingly, with all the cards. Your agents get into Contruum effortlessly, they get their hands on Imperial documents effortlessly... what's next?

If you didn't want the Coalition interfering, you shouldn't be doing bad things. We're good people, and good people try and stop bad people from doing that which makes them bad. Of course, I'm being simplistic, but you get the gist. Now that the military restoration is done and my Intelligence organization is prepared to start assignments, I can and will try to mess up every single thing you do, because that is what the Coalition would want. In the Cold War, both sides kept trying to ruin each other, with very little regard as to wether the other side wanted them involved or not. Why do you think takeovers are asked to be broken up into three and posted over six days? To give others a chance to interfere.

Anyways, on to the stuff about Contruum. I made a few fairly vague assumptions about how an investigation would happen - like, say, there being a security detail, people not being allowed to enter foreign embassies without permission, and that there would probably be some sort of investigation involving agents on the ground looking at things, asking questions, and taking notes. I would assume your agents would be able to get their hands on a list of the people in the blast without difficulty, that's practically the sort of stuff printed in newspapers.

As for your fears that we're 'holding all the cards', it's not like we're doing much that'd be challenging. Admittedly, the organization is new, but the operatives are from experienced backgrounds in previous organizations and so far all they've had to do is 1) land on a planet that countless people leave and enter every day 2) dupe a few security grunts into giving him access to what a low-level crime scene investigator would be handed without a second thought. The badge thing is hardly difficult, I even made it clear that the forgery wasn't perfect but would stand up to the scrutiny of some regular workers and security guards who've probably never seen a badge anyways.

I'm not saying you couldn't figure out eventually an unauthorized person viewed the crime scene, but the only way you could find out is if you asked that guy who was told not to tell anyone (and with the reputation of I.I., would have good reason not to) why he accessed the list of who was present again. Anyways, I asked him about what had happened, and he could have told me - wether the information he had written down just happened to be doctored or not.

Lastly, my point about the passage of time was that it was a bit quick. If you want, I will go into 'the past' and catch up to the several days that have passed in that way. But if I do something, and it upsets what should have 'happened' by then, that'd be your problem.

If you didn't want the Coalition interfering, you shouldn't be doing bad things.

That is, perhaps, the singular most ludicrous thing I've ever read on TRF.

Okay, maybe not. But it's up there.

This an RPG. TRF exists, first are foremost, for the enjoyment of people who like to write. People like to plot out stories and see them played out to their conclusions. As I said, there's certainly nothing stopping anyone from intefering in a planetary takeover RP, but by the same token there is a reason it doesn't happen on a large scale.

It's called respect. For the most part, people on TRF have enough respect for one another to allow them to construct their stories - irregarldess of whether they're 'good' or 'bad' guys - because they don't want to mess up someone else's writing.

You seem to have no qualms about doing so. I notice you even went so far as to post in Simon's RP, which is not a takeover and (thus) can be called open or closed. The general rule of thumb is that unless specifically stated, an RP is closed.

Granted, again, we can't really tell you you're not allowed to post in our RPs (takeovers, at any rate). But you don't see TNO entering into every roleplay the Coalition does at the expense of your writing. We've allowed you to expand and grow as you please, by and large. TNO could easily have interfered and stopped every GC takeover in the last six months, but we haven't. In fact, the only takeover I recall TNO interfering with (ever) is the Roche Asteroid Field, and only on solid IC grounds of strategic interest. Not "because you're our enemy".

In the interest in allowing you to write, expand, etc. Out of respect for your right and (presumably) desire to write a decent story.

In saying "I can and will try to mess up every single thing you do" you show (to me) an utter and complete selfishness and lack of respect. You're putting your group above TRF in trying to make the GC better at the expense of other people's writing.

I'm not going to utter any idle threats, but I can say if you desire to interfere in all of our RPs you can expect the same in kind.

*shrug*

As to your points: why would the ISB be so secretive, going so far as to say "don't tell anyone, not even the ISB"... but still have to go through a grunt to get the information they desired? Why would a guard have access to high-level information anyway? Would he realistically give this information out willy nilly without checking the "agent's" authorization with his superior?

You're access to information seems far too easy. And this seems to be a problem with all your CIB RPs - your agents have access to information with no clear way as to how they got it. You can say "they lied to a guard", but you don't address the multitude of other factors.

I have no problem with you stealing the list of people, or whatever, but you got away with it pretty damn easily. Too easily, imo.

With regards to the passage of time: the Stalwart was being prepared to depart before your post. If you'll notice, it leaves Yaga Minor three hours after Kyoto and Trinity discuss the documents, which presumably happened some hours before.

If you have anything to be done in the interim, then let it happen. But when the ship arrives at Contruum 6, it falls under attack. I doubt your CIB has enough influence to alter something like that... but you never know.

Ok, let's put Contruum aside for a minute here, I'd like to discuss wether it's right to interrupt other people's threads, since if the concensus is that it isn't, maybe I should 'take back' my movement on Contruum and Simon's recent roleplay.

After the Rorche thing (sorry about the delay on that, by the way. Milkshake's still not back yet) I decided to take a more active stance, since it appeared that that was ok. But frankly, I think that since this is a ROLEPLAYING board, it's both legitimate and encouraged for people to interact - sometimes at the expense of each other.

If you wanted to write a story in a vaccum, you shouldn't be writing at TRF, at least so far as I've always thought about it. If you do write here, I was under the impression that it's open game, and that closed threads were ones of speical siginificance on a small scale where others are unlikely to interfere.

Put simply, since the Coalition is becoming more active IC, to try and mess up the Empire's plans is the sort of thing that I thought we would do. If we suspect you're going to try and conquer a planet, then the logical conclusion is we'd try and stop you, or at least do whatever we could. It's in our character. This is a galaxy that unfolds not as a series of isolated stories but as a whole - if I do something, it can effect how you do things, and vice versa. This means sometimes it will be inconvenient, or when you want to do something else.

In fact, it is my current stance that if it makes sense for your group to do so, then why not do it? The Union attacked that summit we had a little while ago, because that's the sort of thing they do. You annexed Roche, because that's the sort of thing you would do. I have solid ground to stop your invasions and genocide, because that's what I would do.

Anyways, back to Contruum. Now that I've checked back, it does indeed appear that very little time passes in the period of the two posts, and it's unlikely what I do in that time would alter what you have posted up until now anyways, so I'm fine to procceed on that front. However, on the point that the way in which I handled acquring the information about who was present at the blast, I must stand firm. I feel it is reasonable, you do not. I have reviewed your reasons, as have you reviewed mine. If you must insist that it would be innacurate information only I could recieve, or that I shouldn't have been able to accomplish the task that I did at all, then if you wish I can request a staff ruling and we can just move on from there.

I never, ever said you weren't allowed to interfere in takeovers. The old rules expressly allowed it, in fact. I said it was not a common occurence because people generally put story ahead of group interests. That means that people don't interfere in takeovers because they recognize that someone is writing a story. It's not writing in a vacuum - that same person might have three other threads with multiple people involved. But at the same time they might like to pursue a story on their own.

*shrug*

Generally, I don't have a problem with people intefering in TNO's takeovers. It can make them more exciting. Ironically, it also makes them easier, as having something to respond to makes 5000 words go a lot quicker, but I digress...

But this isn't Dolash occasionally interfering in a takeover, this is you entering all of TNO's threads unannounced and univited. Most of us probably would be open to your ideas, etc. if you discussed them with us beforehand... but you just jump right in.

Again, nothing wrong with that under the rules, but it does throw storylines around.

I'd also argue your idea that it makes sense for the GC to do so... I don't think it does. If the GC continues to attack TNO through intel, from an IC standpoint TNO is liable to just say "fuck this", and go wipe out the CIB. Certainly it makes sense for you to take some action, but taking constant action is essentially an invitation for TNO to crush you.

That's not an OOC threat or anything, just my IC perception. Likewise. TNO doesn't really see the GC as a major enough threat to curb their expansion in any significant way... Roche was an exception because of its strategic location. It was purely an IC motivation to interfere there, and I think that's well laid out in the RP.

Your interference, to me, looked like you were doing it for the hell of it. Mostly because you just seem to toss some CIB guys in and say "now they're doing stuff". With Contruum, you really just sent some troops in to get information... I didn't (and still don't) see any real point in such, because TNO is going to conquer the planet in the end (as I'm sure we both know).

I understand (now) your motivation... but at the time it looked like "wtf is Dolash doing this for?". That's the same impression I got from your post in Kraken's takeover. I think you need a more concrete IC reason to interfere in a takeover (my own opinion). Saying "the GC would try and stop TNO" is pretty lame, if you ask me. Sure, they might try... but they really don't have the power to do so, and they know it. And doing so might be an invitation for a TNO attack. Would they really put up a futile fight at the cost of their own people and government?

And really, TNO isn't all that bad - a few of the worlds we've taken we've crushed, but mostly the takeovers don't involve a lot of innocents getting slaughtered. And there's no doubt that it is stable and lawful on an Imperial planet...

Finally, just an FYI: I haven't been ignoring you (per say) on AIM. But when I'm "away", even if I'm posting, it means I don't have the time to get into any kind of significant discussion. I don't answer because if I do, I'm liable to get into just that sort of discussion and miss something I was supposed to be doing... or in this case, let my cookies burn.

*Waves*

I was going to get involved.... but because I won't be here for about two weeksm unless your willing to put the thread on a greatly reduced pace, then I won't be able to do so.


Assuming that you aren't prepared to suddenly put a stop to the thread, then don't wait for me to post. I was planning on continuing my interference, but the timing is most unfortunate.

Anyway, just wanted to mention that. If this thread is still going on when I return, then perhaps I can get involved once more.

?

And really, TNO isn't all that bad

eh?

You do know you're part of the Empire Demos?....you do realise the Empire is evil right?

...has anyone told him about this?, (he seems a little confused...)

Seriously Demos, I'm starting to think you believe your own propaganda.

i think its time he turns off the internet for a few hours.

hahahahaha its a game.