Here it is Dolash.
Kaine, your help please
Brilliantboy217: hi
Dolash02: Hey
Brilliantboy217: want to talk about that thread now?
Dolash02: Sure
Dolash02: What's up about it?
Brilliantboy217: one sec, let me get it open
Dolash02: That's what she said!
Dolash02: Snap!
Brilliantboy217: cha ching
Dolash02: Hehehe, sorry
Dolash02: Go ahead.
Brilliantboy217: ok
Dolash02: While you do that, I'll battle the Dark Lord Saruin
Brilliantboy217: ok. I don't deny that you could sneak onto the vessel. I mean its possible that Tir Esias would have detetced you via the Force etc... but we'll just ignore that.
Brilliantboy217: So that takes us to the end of the second paragraph
Dolash02: Uh oh
Brilliantboy217: Let me first explain something... the Midas is not crewed completly by Necrotroopers, like most of the Union ships
Brilliantboy217: it has alot of them on it..... but the Union also employs a good deal of vetern merc troops... and a good majority of them are on the Midas
Brilliantboy217: anyway
Dolash02: Ah, cool
Brilliantboy217: i'd show u a picture of the mercs.. but i cant find them for the moment
Dolash02: Sexy, are they?
Dolash02: Joke
Brilliantboy217: yep. Have you ever seen Dune... they'r elike sardukars... but from a particular version of the movie
Dolash02: Never seen Dune
Brilliantboy217: well then u cant relate
Brilliantboy217: anyway
Brilliantboy217: Ok... so Tir and Orion start marching to a conference room. Necrotroopers would prolly escort them like u said... since Tir can control them via the Force
Brilliantboy217: So thats fine.
Dolash02: I preffer to call it "Teh Forceness"
Brilliantboy217: But... i think you get the wrong idea about the docking bay... this is a SSD getting ready to possibly go into combat. The bay would be full of activity...lots of pilots and nercotroopers and mercs arming fighters, getting ready etc
Brilliantboy217: So when your Azguards pop out... they are not in an empty bay... there are all sorts of Union types around
Dolash02: Well true, but it's also huge, right? So we'd just need to park the ship near some small side door with little activity.
Dolash02: There's gotta be one somewhere
Brilliantboy217: granted everyone is a tad surprised....... but when huge aliens pop out of thin air ur first response is to start shooting
Brilliantboy217: no...
Brilliantboy217: you see the bays are filled with fighters etc
Brilliantboy217: theres no room to sort of sneak around
Brilliantboy217: plus... ur following a shuttle... if u deviate of course... u could hit something.
Dolash02: Filled with them, tip to tail? It's a super Star Destroyer's bay, you could probably fit a frigate in there.
Brilliantboy217: and it also serves as the Union Mobile HQ. Its packed with everything we've got
Brilliantboy217: troop transports
Brilliantboy217: skiprays
Brilliantboy217: fighters
Dolash02: It's not like we'd need a whole third free
Brilliantboy217: ?
Dolash02: A whole third of the hangar, I mean
Dolash02: It's a bit of a copout to say "Traffic's too bad". It's not like we know just how big or how small one of those hangars is - a regular star destroyer can fit a 120m craft in there comfortably.
Brilliantboy217: i know that... but my point is. I contest your position that you are coming into an empty bay
Dolash02: Oh, okay
Brilliantboy217: i'm not saying u cant come in
Dolash02: Well, I could edit it to make it busy.
Brilliantboy217: well hold on one sec... i be back in 2 minutes
Dolash02: Kay
Brilliantboy217: ok
Brilliantboy217: if u want break into the hangar, fine. But you'l have to come out firing\
Dolash02: Howcome?
Brilliantboy217: because there is no way in hell that 500 or however many azguards u have suddenly pop out of a pair of stealthed ships are undetected by the hundreds of Union personel in that hangar
Dolash02: Well, dozens, to be precise. Stealth intruders are something like 30m long.
Dolash02: Maybe Millenium falcon sized
Brilliantboy217: 61 according to the R&D
Dolash02: Oh, yeah
Dolash02: Wow, I was off - I could edit it down to one Stealth Intruder, if you feel that makes more sense?
Brilliantboy217: if u wanted a steal mission, bring like 10 azguards
Brilliantboy217: stealth
Brilliantboy217: *
Brilliantboy217: because its preposterous the way i interpert it
Dolash02: It's a big ship, I might need a few more, eh? A couple dozen total
Dolash02: Maybe send a few to each of the target areas.
Brilliantboy217: then u have to come in guns blazing
Brilliantboy217: because 36 azguards are going to be seen...
Dolash02: Why? Park a stealth ship in front of the door and no one could see.
Dolash02: The stealth ship parks so it's door leads straight to the entrance, meaning you'd only see something at just the right angle - and by then, the ship might just take off and be gone.
Dolash02: Up over the hangar, like an invisible watcher.
Brilliantboy217: It cant get by Tir shuttle
Brilliantboy217: there are fighters and crap....
Dolash02: Why not? The hangar is 3-D, is it not?
Dolash02: The fighters are on the ground
Dolash02: We are in the air
Brilliantboy217: fighters are also in racks
Brilliantboy217: in the air
Dolash02: If there was no room to maneauver, you couldn't be expected to launch.
Brilliantboy217: imagine if i had wanted Tir to be met by an honor guard... and cleared the whol hangar for troops
Brilliantboy217: what would u say then?
Dolash02: Well, I imagine the hangar being clear would make it a little less risky
Dolash02: Less likely someone would suddenly decide to head off towards the stealth ship, or take off suddenly into it.
Brilliantboy217: Let me say this. My compromse to you is saying the GC ships snuck on the Midas. Yours is either:
A) Come out guns blazing
B) Bring one small team
YOu cant have big and stealthly. Pick one.
Dolash02: Well, even if I brought only ten men, I'd need a single Stealth Intruder
Dolash02: Also, the B and the ) made a B) smiley
Brilliantboy217: i'm not disputing that a ship could get in
Dolash02: Hehehe
Brilliantboy217: its about what is realistically able to escape detection
Brilliantboy217: if a dozen azguards slipped out o 1 stealth intruder.. you might escape initial detection in the hangar
Dolash02: So if three dozen came out of the same one?
Dolash02: The only possible difference would be speed of getting out of the Intruder and into the door
Brilliantboy217: start shooting
Dolash02: A matter of two or three seconds
Brilliantboy217: no
Brilliantboy217: 3 dozen
Brilliantboy217: out one door?
Brilliantboy217: plus they form a much larger group
Brilliantboy217: 3 times as many bodies to be seen
Dolash02: Well, the larger group would still be entering the same hallway
Brilliantboy217: 36 is a strike team
Brilliantboy217: 12 is a commando mission
Dolash02: Hm, I still think we're arguing semantics a little here - Imagine I send one Intruder, and it has anywhere between 12-36 men onboard
Brilliantboy217: It doesnt really matter what u think
Brilliantboy217: I say take a dozn if u want stealthy
Brilliantboy217: or more if u want to attack
Dolash02: Now hold one just a second here! You are not the final arbiter in this matter, we are both involved in the decision for this battle.
Brilliantboy217: u want 100 azguards fine
Brilliantboy217: i've already made one conession
Brilliantboy217: its was questionable that u could even sneak on board... but i'm letting that go. But its still my most prized and valuable ship we're talking about here
Dolash02: Well putting it into orbit against a large enemy fleet was a risky move, but it was your choice.
Brilliantboy217: If you blow up the Midas, we'll never be able to replace it
Brilliantboy217: well
Brilliantboy217: i'm not letting u get away
Brilliantboy217: with bs
Dolash02: That's entirely fair
Dolash02: I understand what you mean
Dolash02: I understand that it would be unfair of me to push for advantages simply to gain them.
Brilliantboy217: ok
Dolash02: However - what I did was fair, in that the Stealth Intruder could sneak aboard, and deliver its' people. It was possible that on some tangent chance they would be spotted, but it is not a concession to say that you won't have this improbable possibility occur. TRF doesn't work on concessions, I made a fair move.
Dolash02: You have 12+ km of ship to try and stop me with, right?
Dolash02: That's a lot of ship!
Dolash02: I'm sure a man of your skill can think of something.
Brilliantboy217: I know you made a fair move
Brilliantboy217: i am not denying that
Brilliantboy217: BUT
Brilliantboy217: i do contest you evaluation of the situation in the hangar
Brilliantboy217: You make it out like there is no one there
Brilliantboy217: and i quote
Brilliantboy217: The coast is clear." whispered one being to - presumably - another, in the middle of thin ai
Brilliantboy217: It is not clear. Not if u'r unloaded 100 azguards
Dolash02: All right, all right, that was my mistake - I'll be glad to change it, to fit what your chosen actions are.
Dolash02: And it's not 100, it's probably around 36
Dolash02: Enough so that one ship parks, blocks them from sight, they get off and get into the corridor...
Brilliantboy217: You make it seem that despite the fact that you have had all of 10 minutes to plan this, have no skematic of the ship, you can amazingly park the vessel in such a way that no one can see you.
Brilliantboy217: 36 azguards is still 36 people
Brilliantboy217: think about what 36 of anything is
Brilliantboy217: it doesnt seem like a lot
Brilliantboy217: but it is
Brilliantboy217: you cant have stealth with 36 aliens, 36 navy seals... not in the onfined space of a ship
Dolash02: I admit, if this were, say, the confined space of an Imperator Star Destroyer, that would be true
Dolash02: And it might turn out to be true ten minutes later into the mission.
Dolash02: But an SSD is bigger, has more space, surely enough to park and dodge out quickly
Brilliantboy217: Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Leia and Obi Wan (4 people) had trouble being stealthy on The freakin Death Star.
Brilliantboy217: your proposed force it 9 times larger
Brilliantboy217: is*
Brilliantboy217: besides... if a ship is 61 meters long, it has the capacity tohold more than 36 people
Dolash02: I made concessions for stealth gear and such
Dolash02: Plus... Yolem feels he will need no more than 36
Dolash02: He is... confident
Dolash02: Oh, and religious
Dolash02: That helps
Brilliantboy217: You negotaing skills are interesting. You say you agree with me... then you maintain everything you want. :-P
Dolash02:
Dolash02: Works for car salesmen!
Dolash02: Oh, and Democracies - which I am
Brilliantboy217: listen. I'll give u one more chance for compromise. You can have 36 azguards. But u have to take out all the BS about punch the wall. And thats being FAR FAR FAR too generous. Or we can ask for staff mediation.
Brilliantboy217: and 1 stealth intruder
Dolash02: Actually, punching the wall was just a coolness thing
Dolash02: I didn't mean it to have any effect
Brilliantboy217: take it out
Brilliantboy217: the references to security system etc
Brilliantboy217: all of it
Dolash02: Well... the one Stealth Intruder, I'm fine with. Busy hall, I'm fine with. But I'm sorry, I simply stand firm that I could get that many men aboard in a hurry. Also - I like tearing things out of walls, so all it would mean is maybe the one security camera in there wouldn't be reporting or something. Come on, man, you've got 12+ Km of ship, thousands - nay, tens of thousands - of minions, and visceral cunning. Are you really going to pick on the exact number of soldiers I send? I can give a story and a challenge with 36, I'm not sure yet what I could do with 12.
Brilliantboy217: then why not come out weapons firing with 100?
Dolash02: My plan more or less relies getting as far as out of the hangar before discovery.
Brilliantboy217: my point is... u want to win. I know that. But i'm not simply going to accomodate u so that it happens
Dolash02: I understand, but I won't simply reduce my ability if I think my point is still valid.
Dolash02: We both have valid points, I think
Brilliantboy217: well, it seems we have reached an impasse
Brilliantboy217: so i suggest we IM this covo to Simon
Brilliantboy217: and see what he suggests
Brilliantboy217: i'l send it in a PM if u wish
Dolash02: That works
Brilliantboy217: fine. I'll copy and past this into a PM. and he can arbitrate
Dolash02: I am willing to agree to any decision made by staff, wether it be reduction of forces or maintaining the current status.
Brilliantboy217: ok
Hey Simon. The above is a convo between me and Dolash, in regards to the thread A Score to Settle, a Price to Pay.
The argument is primarily about whether or not Dolash's troops could remain undetected after exiting their stealth intruder.
I maintain that the massive amount of activity going on in a SSD's hangar would make it impossible for 36-60 azguards to exit a ship unseen.
I suggest he reduce his party to 12 if he wants to try and be sneaky. Or up his numbers and come out guns blazing.
He adamantly remains commited to hs position.
So We ask u for a decision.
Thanks, Brutus
--------------------
Well, since you like to bring in the games, doesn't Battlefront II allow one to fly into an enemy hanger (which is empty btw) to crash the party?
Now aren't you glad we don't go by the games as reference?
My thoughts:
Crowded Hanger - This only works of you plan on launching fighters and/or landing troops. For all we know you plan to just slagg the planet with weaponry (which was threatened) in which case the hanger wouldn't be busy at all.
So my question is (see as I am at work and can't spend my time reading the thread): Did the Midas launch fighters? Did you mentioned preparing landing forces?
If not, then Dolash can take the first shot at describing a particular environment that has not been previously discussed or mentioned. Meaning, if you did not indicate hanger activity directly or indirectly (by launching fighters, preparing landing troops, etc..) then you leave such descriptions open to your opponent.
Now, let's say there are indicators such as fighters or dropships being readied, then yes.. sneaking 100 people on board is a wide stretch.
Be that as it may, I think the ship-next-to-the-door thing is bs. One can say that an ISD hanger is small and a SSD hanger is larger but Dolash doesn't seem to realize that a bigger hanger simply means more fighters, more people/droids running around, more equipment and whatnot.
If the hanger is empty of activity, then I believe the ship could sneak aboard undetected. The people coming out of thin air may or may not be seen as the hanger also must be covered by security cameras. But, if the hanger is empty and suddenly 36 people appear, I do not think that they could cross open hanger stealthily and it's not like people park ships next to doors imo.
Actually, I think he would have a better time sneaking aboard if the hanger was full of people as you say Brutus. Everyone is getting ready doing their own thing, no one expects anything and security will not pick up an extra 36 people on their monitors out of what? 100? 200?
However, I think those 36 should be spaced apart, not bunched in one large group. That'll get picked up no problem. So they should sneak around in 3 groups of 12.
In any event, I also do not believe in empty ship corridors. The moment they step out of the hanger into a corridor they will be detected by crewmen and have to kill. They may end up entering a room in stealth but would not be able to remain for long. I think the damage to the wall in having a sensor shut down was stupid. There are no coincidences and now it puts people on alert.
If the hanger is busy, I think the Intruder would be seen. Someone would run into it. Given what I remember of it's stealth ability, cameras taking pictures of room and projecting, it would not work. In space, yes. Against a wall there will be a optical illusion and against other things like ships or straight lines of panels, the craft would bend those lines and distort the look of whatever it was next too and an outline of the invisible ship would appear.
Also, if the ship is surrounded by moving people, still camera shots would not be quick enough to compensate and people would either vanish after going behind stealth ship because cameras are displaying picture of hanger without person there.
All in all, what am I saying?
The last group of 12 soldiers made it unseen to a corridor. Two crewmen are dead from having been shot by Dolash's boarders. The Stealth Intruder has already been detected but Dolash's peeps would not know.
If all 36 boarders are bunched together, then I think corralling them will be quick.
If 36 boarders are split up entering different corridors from hanger, then there is a chance for them to spread.
I would not call it a stealth mission. But boarding an enemy ship does rely on some sort of surprise. That surprise is about to be lost though turning it into a hunt.
-------------------
Ok.
I'll relay the info to Dolash (i'm not sure if he has access to this forum... u might give him access so he can see your words first hand)
Appreciate your help.
Kaine, your help please
Brilliantboy217: hi
Dolash02: Hey
Brilliantboy217: want to talk about that thread now?
Dolash02: Sure
Dolash02: What's up about it?
Brilliantboy217: one sec, let me get it open
Dolash02: That's what she said!
Dolash02: Snap!
Brilliantboy217: cha ching
Dolash02: Hehehe, sorry
Dolash02: Go ahead.
Brilliantboy217: ok
Dolash02: While you do that, I'll battle the Dark Lord Saruin
Brilliantboy217: ok. I don't deny that you could sneak onto the vessel. I mean its possible that Tir Esias would have detetced you via the Force etc... but we'll just ignore that.
Brilliantboy217: So that takes us to the end of the second paragraph
Dolash02: Uh oh
Brilliantboy217: Let me first explain something... the Midas is not crewed completly by Necrotroopers, like most of the Union ships
Brilliantboy217: it has alot of them on it..... but the Union also employs a good deal of vetern merc troops... and a good majority of them are on the Midas
Brilliantboy217: anyway
Dolash02: Ah, cool
Brilliantboy217: i'd show u a picture of the mercs.. but i cant find them for the moment
Dolash02: Sexy, are they?
Dolash02: Joke
Brilliantboy217: yep. Have you ever seen Dune... they'r elike sardukars... but from a particular version of the movie
Dolash02: Never seen Dune
Brilliantboy217: well then u cant relate
Brilliantboy217: anyway
Brilliantboy217: Ok... so Tir and Orion start marching to a conference room. Necrotroopers would prolly escort them like u said... since Tir can control them via the Force
Brilliantboy217: So thats fine.
Dolash02: I preffer to call it "Teh Forceness"
Brilliantboy217: But... i think you get the wrong idea about the docking bay... this is a SSD getting ready to possibly go into combat. The bay would be full of activity...lots of pilots and nercotroopers and mercs arming fighters, getting ready etc
Brilliantboy217: So when your Azguards pop out... they are not in an empty bay... there are all sorts of Union types around
Dolash02: Well true, but it's also huge, right? So we'd just need to park the ship near some small side door with little activity.
Dolash02: There's gotta be one somewhere
Brilliantboy217: granted everyone is a tad surprised....... but when huge aliens pop out of thin air ur first response is to start shooting
Brilliantboy217: no...
Brilliantboy217: you see the bays are filled with fighters etc
Brilliantboy217: theres no room to sort of sneak around
Brilliantboy217: plus... ur following a shuttle... if u deviate of course... u could hit something.
Dolash02: Filled with them, tip to tail? It's a super Star Destroyer's bay, you could probably fit a frigate in there.
Brilliantboy217: and it also serves as the Union Mobile HQ. Its packed with everything we've got
Brilliantboy217: troop transports
Brilliantboy217: skiprays
Brilliantboy217: fighters
Dolash02: It's not like we'd need a whole third free
Brilliantboy217: ?
Dolash02: A whole third of the hangar, I mean
Dolash02: It's a bit of a copout to say "Traffic's too bad". It's not like we know just how big or how small one of those hangars is - a regular star destroyer can fit a 120m craft in there comfortably.
Brilliantboy217: i know that... but my point is. I contest your position that you are coming into an empty bay
Dolash02: Oh, okay
Brilliantboy217: i'm not saying u cant come in
Dolash02: Well, I could edit it to make it busy.
Brilliantboy217: well hold on one sec... i be back in 2 minutes
Dolash02: Kay
Brilliantboy217: ok
Brilliantboy217: if u want break into the hangar, fine. But you'l have to come out firing\
Dolash02: Howcome?
Brilliantboy217: because there is no way in hell that 500 or however many azguards u have suddenly pop out of a pair of stealthed ships are undetected by the hundreds of Union personel in that hangar
Dolash02: Well, dozens, to be precise. Stealth intruders are something like 30m long.
Dolash02: Maybe Millenium falcon sized
Brilliantboy217: 61 according to the R&D
Dolash02: Oh, yeah
Dolash02: Wow, I was off - I could edit it down to one Stealth Intruder, if you feel that makes more sense?
Brilliantboy217: if u wanted a steal mission, bring like 10 azguards
Brilliantboy217: stealth
Brilliantboy217: *
Brilliantboy217: because its preposterous the way i interpert it
Dolash02: It's a big ship, I might need a few more, eh? A couple dozen total
Dolash02: Maybe send a few to each of the target areas.
Brilliantboy217: then u have to come in guns blazing
Brilliantboy217: because 36 azguards are going to be seen...
Dolash02: Why? Park a stealth ship in front of the door and no one could see.
Dolash02: The stealth ship parks so it's door leads straight to the entrance, meaning you'd only see something at just the right angle - and by then, the ship might just take off and be gone.
Dolash02: Up over the hangar, like an invisible watcher.
Brilliantboy217: It cant get by Tir shuttle
Brilliantboy217: there are fighters and crap....
Dolash02: Why not? The hangar is 3-D, is it not?
Dolash02: The fighters are on the ground
Dolash02: We are in the air
Brilliantboy217: fighters are also in racks
Brilliantboy217: in the air
Dolash02: If there was no room to maneauver, you couldn't be expected to launch.
Brilliantboy217: imagine if i had wanted Tir to be met by an honor guard... and cleared the whol hangar for troops
Brilliantboy217: what would u say then?
Dolash02: Well, I imagine the hangar being clear would make it a little less risky
Dolash02: Less likely someone would suddenly decide to head off towards the stealth ship, or take off suddenly into it.
Brilliantboy217: Let me say this. My compromse to you is saying the GC ships snuck on the Midas. Yours is either:
A) Come out guns blazing
B) Bring one small team
YOu cant have big and stealthly. Pick one.
Dolash02: Well, even if I brought only ten men, I'd need a single Stealth Intruder
Dolash02: Also, the B and the ) made a B) smiley
Brilliantboy217: i'm not disputing that a ship could get in
Dolash02: Hehehe
Brilliantboy217: its about what is realistically able to escape detection
Brilliantboy217: if a dozen azguards slipped out o 1 stealth intruder.. you might escape initial detection in the hangar
Dolash02: So if three dozen came out of the same one?
Dolash02: The only possible difference would be speed of getting out of the Intruder and into the door
Brilliantboy217: start shooting
Dolash02: A matter of two or three seconds
Brilliantboy217: no
Brilliantboy217: 3 dozen
Brilliantboy217: out one door?
Brilliantboy217: plus they form a much larger group
Brilliantboy217: 3 times as many bodies to be seen
Dolash02: Well, the larger group would still be entering the same hallway
Brilliantboy217: 36 is a strike team
Brilliantboy217: 12 is a commando mission
Dolash02: Hm, I still think we're arguing semantics a little here - Imagine I send one Intruder, and it has anywhere between 12-36 men onboard
Brilliantboy217: It doesnt really matter what u think
Brilliantboy217: I say take a dozn if u want stealthy
Brilliantboy217: or more if u want to attack
Dolash02: Now hold one just a second here! You are not the final arbiter in this matter, we are both involved in the decision for this battle.
Brilliantboy217: u want 100 azguards fine
Brilliantboy217: i've already made one conession
Brilliantboy217: its was questionable that u could even sneak on board... but i'm letting that go. But its still my most prized and valuable ship we're talking about here
Dolash02: Well putting it into orbit against a large enemy fleet was a risky move, but it was your choice.
Brilliantboy217: If you blow up the Midas, we'll never be able to replace it
Brilliantboy217: well
Brilliantboy217: i'm not letting u get away
Brilliantboy217: with bs
Dolash02: That's entirely fair
Dolash02: I understand what you mean
Dolash02: I understand that it would be unfair of me to push for advantages simply to gain them.
Brilliantboy217: ok
Dolash02: However - what I did was fair, in that the Stealth Intruder could sneak aboard, and deliver its' people. It was possible that on some tangent chance they would be spotted, but it is not a concession to say that you won't have this improbable possibility occur. TRF doesn't work on concessions, I made a fair move.
Dolash02: You have 12+ km of ship to try and stop me with, right?
Dolash02: That's a lot of ship!
Dolash02: I'm sure a man of your skill can think of something.
Brilliantboy217: I know you made a fair move
Brilliantboy217: i am not denying that
Brilliantboy217: BUT
Brilliantboy217: i do contest you evaluation of the situation in the hangar
Brilliantboy217: You make it out like there is no one there
Brilliantboy217: and i quote
Brilliantboy217: The coast is clear." whispered one being to - presumably - another, in the middle of thin ai
Brilliantboy217: It is not clear. Not if u'r unloaded 100 azguards
Dolash02: All right, all right, that was my mistake - I'll be glad to change it, to fit what your chosen actions are.
Dolash02: And it's not 100, it's probably around 36
Dolash02: Enough so that one ship parks, blocks them from sight, they get off and get into the corridor...
Brilliantboy217: You make it seem that despite the fact that you have had all of 10 minutes to plan this, have no skematic of the ship, you can amazingly park the vessel in such a way that no one can see you.
Brilliantboy217: 36 azguards is still 36 people
Brilliantboy217: think about what 36 of anything is
Brilliantboy217: it doesnt seem like a lot
Brilliantboy217: but it is
Brilliantboy217: you cant have stealth with 36 aliens, 36 navy seals... not in the onfined space of a ship
Dolash02: I admit, if this were, say, the confined space of an Imperator Star Destroyer, that would be true
Dolash02: And it might turn out to be true ten minutes later into the mission.
Dolash02: But an SSD is bigger, has more space, surely enough to park and dodge out quickly
Brilliantboy217: Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Leia and Obi Wan (4 people) had trouble being stealthy on The freakin Death Star.
Brilliantboy217: your proposed force it 9 times larger
Brilliantboy217: is*
Brilliantboy217: besides... if a ship is 61 meters long, it has the capacity tohold more than 36 people
Dolash02: I made concessions for stealth gear and such
Dolash02: Plus... Yolem feels he will need no more than 36
Dolash02: He is... confident
Dolash02: Oh, and religious
Dolash02: That helps
Brilliantboy217: You negotaing skills are interesting. You say you agree with me... then you maintain everything you want. :-P
Dolash02:
Dolash02: Works for car salesmen!
Dolash02: Oh, and Democracies - which I am
Brilliantboy217: listen. I'll give u one more chance for compromise. You can have 36 azguards. But u have to take out all the BS about punch the wall. And thats being FAR FAR FAR too generous. Or we can ask for staff mediation.
Brilliantboy217: and 1 stealth intruder
Dolash02: Actually, punching the wall was just a coolness thing
Dolash02: I didn't mean it to have any effect
Brilliantboy217: take it out
Brilliantboy217: the references to security system etc
Brilliantboy217: all of it
Dolash02: Well... the one Stealth Intruder, I'm fine with. Busy hall, I'm fine with. But I'm sorry, I simply stand firm that I could get that many men aboard in a hurry. Also - I like tearing things out of walls, so all it would mean is maybe the one security camera in there wouldn't be reporting or something. Come on, man, you've got 12+ Km of ship, thousands - nay, tens of thousands - of minions, and visceral cunning. Are you really going to pick on the exact number of soldiers I send? I can give a story and a challenge with 36, I'm not sure yet what I could do with 12.
Brilliantboy217: then why not come out weapons firing with 100?
Dolash02: My plan more or less relies getting as far as out of the hangar before discovery.
Brilliantboy217: my point is... u want to win. I know that. But i'm not simply going to accomodate u so that it happens
Dolash02: I understand, but I won't simply reduce my ability if I think my point is still valid.
Dolash02: We both have valid points, I think
Brilliantboy217: well, it seems we have reached an impasse
Brilliantboy217: so i suggest we IM this covo to Simon
Brilliantboy217: and see what he suggests
Brilliantboy217: i'l send it in a PM if u wish
Dolash02: That works
Brilliantboy217: fine. I'll copy and past this into a PM. and he can arbitrate
Dolash02: I am willing to agree to any decision made by staff, wether it be reduction of forces or maintaining the current status.
Brilliantboy217: ok
Hey Simon. The above is a convo between me and Dolash, in regards to the thread A Score to Settle, a Price to Pay.
The argument is primarily about whether or not Dolash's troops could remain undetected after exiting their stealth intruder.
I maintain that the massive amount of activity going on in a SSD's hangar would make it impossible for 36-60 azguards to exit a ship unseen.
I suggest he reduce his party to 12 if he wants to try and be sneaky. Or up his numbers and come out guns blazing.
He adamantly remains commited to hs position.
So We ask u for a decision.
Thanks, Brutus
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Well, since you like to bring in the games, doesn't Battlefront II allow one to fly into an enemy hanger (which is empty btw) to crash the party?
Now aren't you glad we don't go by the games as reference?
My thoughts:
Crowded Hanger - This only works of you plan on launching fighters and/or landing troops. For all we know you plan to just slagg the planet with weaponry (which was threatened) in which case the hanger wouldn't be busy at all.
So my question is (see as I am at work and can't spend my time reading the thread): Did the Midas launch fighters? Did you mentioned preparing landing forces?
If not, then Dolash can take the first shot at describing a particular environment that has not been previously discussed or mentioned. Meaning, if you did not indicate hanger activity directly or indirectly (by launching fighters, preparing landing troops, etc..) then you leave such descriptions open to your opponent.
Now, let's say there are indicators such as fighters or dropships being readied, then yes.. sneaking 100 people on board is a wide stretch.
Be that as it may, I think the ship-next-to-the-door thing is bs. One can say that an ISD hanger is small and a SSD hanger is larger but Dolash doesn't seem to realize that a bigger hanger simply means more fighters, more people/droids running around, more equipment and whatnot.
If the hanger is empty of activity, then I believe the ship could sneak aboard undetected. The people coming out of thin air may or may not be seen as the hanger also must be covered by security cameras. But, if the hanger is empty and suddenly 36 people appear, I do not think that they could cross open hanger stealthily and it's not like people park ships next to doors imo.
Actually, I think he would have a better time sneaking aboard if the hanger was full of people as you say Brutus. Everyone is getting ready doing their own thing, no one expects anything and security will not pick up an extra 36 people on their monitors out of what? 100? 200?
However, I think those 36 should be spaced apart, not bunched in one large group. That'll get picked up no problem. So they should sneak around in 3 groups of 12.
In any event, I also do not believe in empty ship corridors. The moment they step out of the hanger into a corridor they will be detected by crewmen and have to kill. They may end up entering a room in stealth but would not be able to remain for long. I think the damage to the wall in having a sensor shut down was stupid. There are no coincidences and now it puts people on alert.
If the hanger is busy, I think the Intruder would be seen. Someone would run into it. Given what I remember of it's stealth ability, cameras taking pictures of room and projecting, it would not work. In space, yes. Against a wall there will be a optical illusion and against other things like ships or straight lines of panels, the craft would bend those lines and distort the look of whatever it was next too and an outline of the invisible ship would appear.
Also, if the ship is surrounded by moving people, still camera shots would not be quick enough to compensate and people would either vanish after going behind stealth ship because cameras are displaying picture of hanger without person there.
All in all, what am I saying?
The last group of 12 soldiers made it unseen to a corridor. Two crewmen are dead from having been shot by Dolash's boarders. The Stealth Intruder has already been detected but Dolash's peeps would not know.
If all 36 boarders are bunched together, then I think corralling them will be quick.
If 36 boarders are split up entering different corridors from hanger, then there is a chance for them to spread.
I would not call it a stealth mission. But boarding an enemy ship does rely on some sort of surprise. That surprise is about to be lost though turning it into a hunt.
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Ok.
I'll relay the info to Dolash (i'm not sure if he has access to this forum... u might give him access so he can see your words first hand)
Appreciate your help.
