You have gone too far and I'm calling you out.
To begin, I will acknowledge that your latest post in the Salotai thread is well-written and well-thought out. It employs nearly everything a person could ask for in a writer.
That said, though, there is one thing that it lacks, and that is the consideration for the ideas and facts already posted in the thread. Your post is filled with retcons that negate nearly everything in my last post. In my post, you may have noticed, I included everything you had said and made it fit with what had already been written, despite that you had ignored everything Vaseli had already written and just planned your own storyline. I did not touch one piece of Confederation equipment, I did not do anything outside what you had stated, I even had the government as supporters of the Confederation and allowed your fleet to remain, despite Vaseli having given the strong hint that neither assertion was accurate. And then I see this post today, and I find that you did it again.
Allow me to point out a few of your more blatant retcons and what from the previous post they violate.
1) "Green gases began to flow across the battlefield; knocking out those hard-hearted peoples who continued to fight over Salotai’s allegiance into a void abyss; temporal exile from the living of Salotai. Their conflicting thoughts smashed into nothingness, remembered only by a few old friends; those who still lived and contributed to the beauty of Salotai."
Now, the objection I have here is two-fold. First, you have the mob composed entirely of brutes and fighters. Now, unless the entire population of Salotai minus the 10,000 or so Confederation supporters are brutes and fighters, we have a problem. Second, I have a problem with the word fight - you cannot call a one-sided protest much of a fight. A few scattered supporters (remember, most stayed at home and locked the doors) don't make for much of a fight.
2) You assume a democratically elected government with ministers and such on a world that leans as a whole towards the Empire. Does that really make sense?
3) “Because they’re becoming far too overextended for their own good,” commented Thorn, “and I willing to bet that whatever passes as their high command knows that. There are Imperial forces trying to keep the Bothan Sector pacified, and frankly, the Bothans aren’t too pleased with their presence. An insurgency there is running rampant, killing off squads of men a day; and that can’t be good for morale. In addition, the Empire is literally having to shell out all of the money to keep those planet’s infrastructure running because the Bothan governments transferred all of their funds to the Coalition before they capitulated. They're also fighting off their traitor, Kris Enfield, and the forces of his True Empire, which is essentially a civil war between the two. And of course, there are a host of minor insurgencies running about from Thyferra to New Holstice. Each one by itself may not account for much, but in the end, they are draining a small army daily from the Imperial force and drawing down their troop’s morale, and the willingness of people to be recruited into the Imperial forces. And of course, they’re now trying to both simultaneously try to conquer areas in this region of space and the Onyxian Sector. Neither of which will be supporting the Imperial War machine initially. If another galactic government like the Confederation is thrown at it, they may be able to procure enough ships for their own defence and to send limited attack fleets, but surely not something to significantly outnumber Confederate forces. If they could, it would be defying common sense. The real question is though, are your people willing to fight?”
This quote is problematic on several levels. First, I believe Kris Enfield was vanquished a while ago. And you assume that there is an insurgency on New Holstice and that the Empire is fighting it - did you not take into account my last post in the New Holstice thread, where I stated that no Imperials were to occupy the planet, they could rule however they liked, simply asking a small percentage of any trade brought by the Empire and the use of the medical facilities?
4) “Fight to join the Confederation?” mused the Premier, “probably not. But they will be willing to fight to keep their freedoms. If doing so requires membership into the Confederation, I think they’ll do it, perhaps hesitatingly though.”
Have you not yet gotten it into your head that these people don't necessarily want to 'keep their freedoms,' or even that they have any freedoms? Or that the Empire won't actually harm them? Or that they actually like the Empire? Or that they want Imperial rule? There is a small minority that does not - everyone else does. It has been written that way - that's why Salotai was chosen as a target, like you choose your planets to take. How would you feel if I interfered with one of your takeovers and said that the people of the planet would fight to stay free of Confederation rule, because they hated democracy?
5) "The Premier snorted, “They have some supporters, though like the Confederation, not a lot. I am surprised, Pro-Consul, that an experienced politician like you would not see that. Think of it, if the Empire really had a lot of popular support here on the planet, why wouldn’t have we joined the Empire already? The New Republic collapsed years ago, and that has left us independent for that long; there has never been a significant movement to rejoin the Empire, and is there really any wonder why? Salotai was used by the Empire during the height of its reign. We built that repair yard to service and cater to everyone, but when the Empire came, they not only stripped our personal liberties, but those of our planet and government. We had to cut off hundreds of loyal patrons and partners because the Empire alone could use the yard. It was a ridiculous monopoly that the people didn’t have a voice in so choosing. Do you not think that brutal domination and overbearing inspires resentment? Do you not think that orbital bombardments, destruction of entire worlds like Alderaan endears the Empire to us? No, the Empire would be mistaken if they thought they have any significant support here.”"
This completely ignores everything in my last post. The population does overwhelmingly support the Empire. The Empire brought wealth, prosperity, and goodness. Most of the military are retired Imperials or those who were left on the planet after the Wrath Virus. Most remember the Empire with fondness, and despised the New Republic that took away that wealth.
6) “Think about it,” smiled the Premier, “they are ex-Imperials. People don’t leave the Imperial military without a reason. There are a lot of people who joined our defence forces simply because they saw the horrors which the Empire has committed; like the genocides of entire peoples, and they don’t want to see that happen again to another innocent planet. There are ex-Imperials here because their relatives were Rebel sympathizers, and because of that, they were going to be executed. And what better force could we ask for then? None of them would want to rejoin the Empire because they are traitors, and would be executed as such, and yet, we have troops with the best Imperial training now; far better quality than most mercenaries we could hire or native troops we could have trained…”
Did you just choose the parts of my post that you liked? Let me quote what I said: "It didn't take much debate before the palace guard, loyal ex-Imperials all, threw open the gates and let the mob in."
And this: "The military of Salotai had a number of ex-Imperials in it - actually, a lot of ex-Imperials in it - Imperials whose men had trained under them and had been instilled with the ideas of the Empire's virtues. They saw it in the running of their own fleet - the efficiency, the organization, the discipline. In fact, there were few individuals who didn't absolutely love the Empire, and those that didn't certainly didn't like the Confederation."
Now, compare that with your analysis, and note which one was posted first, who created the planet, and how your post ignores all of that information.
7) "The doors to the conference room opened to admit a white-haired General with a pair of palace guards. He gave a mad smile and unholstered a pistol. The Premier frowned.
“What are you doing General? Put that pistol away…”
The General shook his head. “No, I’m afraid it’s going to be the opposite. For the three of us are part of the Imperial Liberation Front. Goodbye, Premier.”
The man flew into wall and groaned. His pistol clattered to the ground. Cursing, the former Imperial fell into unconsciousness. Kitty leapt from her seat towards the two traitorous guardsmen. A holdout blaster slid from her sleave into her hand, and she fired. A bright blue stun burst hit the first guard, sending him into unconsciousness. Her left had grabbed the carbine barrel of the second guard and yanked it forward. The soldier stumbled forward, right into an elbow smash from the Jensaarai’s left arm. He let out a sharp yelp of pain. Hawk’s right arm spun downward in a pistol whip that connected with the man’s crotch. It connected, and the traitor yelped in more pain. His carbine clattered to the floor. In the meantime, Hawk’s left hand fell downwards in a open palm hand to the base of the neck, and the man collapsed into unconsciousness."
Um...that's a slightly different account than what was already posted. Let me refresh your memory:
"On the planet, the mob outside the Premier's palace had grown. Thousands, even tens of thousands, all well-armed. It didn't take much debate before the palace guard, loyal ex-Imperials all, threw open the gates and let the mob in. They swarmed through the palace, heading for the Premier's chambers. The Premier, alone by now after having dismissed Pro-Consul Thorn, sat with a blaster on his desk. When he heard the noise outside his door, he lifted the weapon to his head, and as the door crashed open, he pulled the trigger. The blaster fired, it's red bolt visible for just a moment before it struck the Premier's temple and exited the other side, splattering the traitor's brains and blood all along the far wall. The Premier slumped at his desk even as the General and Palace guard entered to arrest him.
Thus ended the rule of the worst premier in the history of the planet, the premier who decided to go against the will of the people. Never again would Salotai allow a ruler who enteretained ideas of an alliance with a people or government that they hated. From now on, it was the Empire or nothing. The entire planet was at arms, ready to resist the Confederation invaders if they came. If they did come, and they won, the people were prepared to burn everything, leaving the Contegorians nothing more than a burned rock."
This states that the Premier killed himself, and that the General survives. Now, you may do what you like, but you'll be a very small minority in the palace in my next post, and you can assume that we'll have a large force there to arrest and/or kill you and your associates should you remain.
8) "“But perhaps not our citizens,” replied the defence minister, “some of the Imperial supporters are taking to the streets, trying to disrupt a Pro-Confederation rally. I’ve dispatched the riot police…”
“A just got a text from our Supreme Commanding Officer,” replied the Premier, “Admiral Hyvard, formerly of the New Republic Navy. The armed forces are waiting for their orders. What do we do?”"
Um...yeah. I want this out. First of all, the fleet is commanded by ex-Imperials - as in Imperials who remained on Salotai, those retired from Imperial service, etc. Refer to the above comment about ex-Imperials for a full analysis. Now, the armed forces of Salotia are adamantly anti-Confederation and anti-Premier. The Premier is dead, having shot himself. Now, revise your post, or I shall be forced to ask for an administrative review.
And a pro-Confederation rally? What the crap are you thinking? There are only a few Confederation supporters, as opposed to Imperial supporters in the hundred millions or even billions, depending on how populated the world is. You can have your rally, but there won't be many people in it, and there's a much larger Imperial group. Get it straight - the people of Salotai do not like the Confederation, and they do like the Empire.
9) “You have a 10% chance of the last occurring,” muttered a Minister, “just like the Imperials. Currently, 80% of the populace is neutral…”
Again, refer to what I've already said. A large majority of the population supports the Empire. Deal with it.
10) "but can continue to protect the individual freedoms which the people of Salotai cherish"
Uh, who says they cherish them? Certainly that was never implied in my post; in fact, the opposite is true - they want Imperial rule. They don't like democracy, they don't like the Confederation, they want the Empire. Now, you can conquer the planet militarily and lose face, or leave. Your choice.
11) Presently...
“People of Salotai,” announced the Premier, “You have heard the call for revolution by Commodore Vaseli of the Imperial Navy. It is a call for needless bloodshed. For even if it is your wish to join the Empire, it can be accomplished bloodlessly and without inhumane brutality. If it is yours, the people’s wish, to join one government or another, or perhaps best yet, remain neutral, so shall I and the government elected endeavor to make that dream a reality. Let us throw down our weapons and pick up our pens, for it is said that the pen is mightier than the sword, and so it is true. Let us talk, and let us debate this matter ourselves and let us make this choice on our own. Let us not fall to this fallacy of black and white, that one government is only right, and the other purely wrong. Let us debate this, let us see past the rhetoric and into the shades of gray to see which one, if any, is a government which we can support. Pro-Consul Thorn of the Confederation has offered us an oath that the Confederation will not force us to choose one side or another, but will protect our right of self-determination. I ask of the Imperial commander to offer the same oath, for the betterment of Salotai’s great people.”
Eliminate this, as the Premier already shot himself. Unless he's speaking as a ghost rising up from the grave.
Now, I'm sorry to have to ask this, but please rewrite your entire post to include the facts that the population hates the Confederation, loves the Empire, that the Premier is dead, that the military is pro-Empire and threatening to destroy the Confederation fleet, and that there is no mass riot. If you do not, I will ask for moderator review and request that they make an unbiased decision on the thread. Thank you.
For the moderators: I am sorry to have to do this in this format, but it seems that everything else I have tried has not worked. I have spoken with Corise over IM and PM during the last debate over his first post in the thread, and he ignored everything I said to the point where I just said, "The heck with it" and worked with his post. I cannot do that this time. So, if his response is not forthcoming and in a manner such that he rewrites the post in question and eliminates the retconning, I ask that we be allowed a place in which to make our respective cases known before the moderators and an unbiased decision to be rendered by such moderators. I do not wish this to be turned into a large OOC war like Hunters and Gatherers, and therefore will not post again in this thread. Again, I am sorry for the necessity of using an open forum for this matter, but I have followed the protocols set down for dealing with a situation such as this, having spoken to Corise over PM, IM, and having even discussed the issue with a board admin. This was, I felt, the only recourse left to me.
To begin, I will acknowledge that your latest post in the Salotai thread is well-written and well-thought out. It employs nearly everything a person could ask for in a writer.
That said, though, there is one thing that it lacks, and that is the consideration for the ideas and facts already posted in the thread. Your post is filled with retcons that negate nearly everything in my last post. In my post, you may have noticed, I included everything you had said and made it fit with what had already been written, despite that you had ignored everything Vaseli had already written and just planned your own storyline. I did not touch one piece of Confederation equipment, I did not do anything outside what you had stated, I even had the government as supporters of the Confederation and allowed your fleet to remain, despite Vaseli having given the strong hint that neither assertion was accurate. And then I see this post today, and I find that you did it again.
Allow me to point out a few of your more blatant retcons and what from the previous post they violate.
1) "Green gases began to flow across the battlefield; knocking out those hard-hearted peoples who continued to fight over Salotai’s allegiance into a void abyss; temporal exile from the living of Salotai. Their conflicting thoughts smashed into nothingness, remembered only by a few old friends; those who still lived and contributed to the beauty of Salotai."
Now, the objection I have here is two-fold. First, you have the mob composed entirely of brutes and fighters. Now, unless the entire population of Salotai minus the 10,000 or so Confederation supporters are brutes and fighters, we have a problem. Second, I have a problem with the word fight - you cannot call a one-sided protest much of a fight. A few scattered supporters (remember, most stayed at home and locked the doors) don't make for much of a fight.
2) You assume a democratically elected government with ministers and such on a world that leans as a whole towards the Empire. Does that really make sense?
3) “Because they’re becoming far too overextended for their own good,” commented Thorn, “and I willing to bet that whatever passes as their high command knows that. There are Imperial forces trying to keep the Bothan Sector pacified, and frankly, the Bothans aren’t too pleased with their presence. An insurgency there is running rampant, killing off squads of men a day; and that can’t be good for morale. In addition, the Empire is literally having to shell out all of the money to keep those planet’s infrastructure running because the Bothan governments transferred all of their funds to the Coalition before they capitulated. They're also fighting off their traitor, Kris Enfield, and the forces of his True Empire, which is essentially a civil war between the two. And of course, there are a host of minor insurgencies running about from Thyferra to New Holstice. Each one by itself may not account for much, but in the end, they are draining a small army daily from the Imperial force and drawing down their troop’s morale, and the willingness of people to be recruited into the Imperial forces. And of course, they’re now trying to both simultaneously try to conquer areas in this region of space and the Onyxian Sector. Neither of which will be supporting the Imperial War machine initially. If another galactic government like the Confederation is thrown at it, they may be able to procure enough ships for their own defence and to send limited attack fleets, but surely not something to significantly outnumber Confederate forces. If they could, it would be defying common sense. The real question is though, are your people willing to fight?”
This quote is problematic on several levels. First, I believe Kris Enfield was vanquished a while ago. And you assume that there is an insurgency on New Holstice and that the Empire is fighting it - did you not take into account my last post in the New Holstice thread, where I stated that no Imperials were to occupy the planet, they could rule however they liked, simply asking a small percentage of any trade brought by the Empire and the use of the medical facilities?
4) “Fight to join the Confederation?” mused the Premier, “probably not. But they will be willing to fight to keep their freedoms. If doing so requires membership into the Confederation, I think they’ll do it, perhaps hesitatingly though.”
Have you not yet gotten it into your head that these people don't necessarily want to 'keep their freedoms,' or even that they have any freedoms? Or that the Empire won't actually harm them? Or that they actually like the Empire? Or that they want Imperial rule? There is a small minority that does not - everyone else does. It has been written that way - that's why Salotai was chosen as a target, like you choose your planets to take. How would you feel if I interfered with one of your takeovers and said that the people of the planet would fight to stay free of Confederation rule, because they hated democracy?
5) "The Premier snorted, “They have some supporters, though like the Confederation, not a lot. I am surprised, Pro-Consul, that an experienced politician like you would not see that. Think of it, if the Empire really had a lot of popular support here on the planet, why wouldn’t have we joined the Empire already? The New Republic collapsed years ago, and that has left us independent for that long; there has never been a significant movement to rejoin the Empire, and is there really any wonder why? Salotai was used by the Empire during the height of its reign. We built that repair yard to service and cater to everyone, but when the Empire came, they not only stripped our personal liberties, but those of our planet and government. We had to cut off hundreds of loyal patrons and partners because the Empire alone could use the yard. It was a ridiculous monopoly that the people didn’t have a voice in so choosing. Do you not think that brutal domination and overbearing inspires resentment? Do you not think that orbital bombardments, destruction of entire worlds like Alderaan endears the Empire to us? No, the Empire would be mistaken if they thought they have any significant support here.”"
This completely ignores everything in my last post. The population does overwhelmingly support the Empire. The Empire brought wealth, prosperity, and goodness. Most of the military are retired Imperials or those who were left on the planet after the Wrath Virus. Most remember the Empire with fondness, and despised the New Republic that took away that wealth.
6) “Think about it,” smiled the Premier, “they are ex-Imperials. People don’t leave the Imperial military without a reason. There are a lot of people who joined our defence forces simply because they saw the horrors which the Empire has committed; like the genocides of entire peoples, and they don’t want to see that happen again to another innocent planet. There are ex-Imperials here because their relatives were Rebel sympathizers, and because of that, they were going to be executed. And what better force could we ask for then? None of them would want to rejoin the Empire because they are traitors, and would be executed as such, and yet, we have troops with the best Imperial training now; far better quality than most mercenaries we could hire or native troops we could have trained…”
Did you just choose the parts of my post that you liked? Let me quote what I said: "It didn't take much debate before the palace guard, loyal ex-Imperials all, threw open the gates and let the mob in."
And this: "The military of Salotai had a number of ex-Imperials in it - actually, a lot of ex-Imperials in it - Imperials whose men had trained under them and had been instilled with the ideas of the Empire's virtues. They saw it in the running of their own fleet - the efficiency, the organization, the discipline. In fact, there were few individuals who didn't absolutely love the Empire, and those that didn't certainly didn't like the Confederation."
Now, compare that with your analysis, and note which one was posted first, who created the planet, and how your post ignores all of that information.
7) "The doors to the conference room opened to admit a white-haired General with a pair of palace guards. He gave a mad smile and unholstered a pistol. The Premier frowned.
“What are you doing General? Put that pistol away…”
The General shook his head. “No, I’m afraid it’s going to be the opposite. For the three of us are part of the Imperial Liberation Front. Goodbye, Premier.”
The man flew into wall and groaned. His pistol clattered to the ground. Cursing, the former Imperial fell into unconsciousness. Kitty leapt from her seat towards the two traitorous guardsmen. A holdout blaster slid from her sleave into her hand, and she fired. A bright blue stun burst hit the first guard, sending him into unconsciousness. Her left had grabbed the carbine barrel of the second guard and yanked it forward. The soldier stumbled forward, right into an elbow smash from the Jensaarai’s left arm. He let out a sharp yelp of pain. Hawk’s right arm spun downward in a pistol whip that connected with the man’s crotch. It connected, and the traitor yelped in more pain. His carbine clattered to the floor. In the meantime, Hawk’s left hand fell downwards in a open palm hand to the base of the neck, and the man collapsed into unconsciousness."
Um...that's a slightly different account than what was already posted. Let me refresh your memory:
"On the planet, the mob outside the Premier's palace had grown. Thousands, even tens of thousands, all well-armed. It didn't take much debate before the palace guard, loyal ex-Imperials all, threw open the gates and let the mob in. They swarmed through the palace, heading for the Premier's chambers. The Premier, alone by now after having dismissed Pro-Consul Thorn, sat with a blaster on his desk. When he heard the noise outside his door, he lifted the weapon to his head, and as the door crashed open, he pulled the trigger. The blaster fired, it's red bolt visible for just a moment before it struck the Premier's temple and exited the other side, splattering the traitor's brains and blood all along the far wall. The Premier slumped at his desk even as the General and Palace guard entered to arrest him.
Thus ended the rule of the worst premier in the history of the planet, the premier who decided to go against the will of the people. Never again would Salotai allow a ruler who enteretained ideas of an alliance with a people or government that they hated. From now on, it was the Empire or nothing. The entire planet was at arms, ready to resist the Confederation invaders if they came. If they did come, and they won, the people were prepared to burn everything, leaving the Contegorians nothing more than a burned rock."
This states that the Premier killed himself, and that the General survives. Now, you may do what you like, but you'll be a very small minority in the palace in my next post, and you can assume that we'll have a large force there to arrest and/or kill you and your associates should you remain.
8) "“But perhaps not our citizens,” replied the defence minister, “some of the Imperial supporters are taking to the streets, trying to disrupt a Pro-Confederation rally. I’ve dispatched the riot police…”
“A just got a text from our Supreme Commanding Officer,” replied the Premier, “Admiral Hyvard, formerly of the New Republic Navy. The armed forces are waiting for their orders. What do we do?”"
Um...yeah. I want this out. First of all, the fleet is commanded by ex-Imperials - as in Imperials who remained on Salotai, those retired from Imperial service, etc. Refer to the above comment about ex-Imperials for a full analysis. Now, the armed forces of Salotia are adamantly anti-Confederation and anti-Premier. The Premier is dead, having shot himself. Now, revise your post, or I shall be forced to ask for an administrative review.
And a pro-Confederation rally? What the crap are you thinking? There are only a few Confederation supporters, as opposed to Imperial supporters in the hundred millions or even billions, depending on how populated the world is. You can have your rally, but there won't be many people in it, and there's a much larger Imperial group. Get it straight - the people of Salotai do not like the Confederation, and they do like the Empire.
9) “You have a 10% chance of the last occurring,” muttered a Minister, “just like the Imperials. Currently, 80% of the populace is neutral…”
Again, refer to what I've already said. A large majority of the population supports the Empire. Deal with it.
10) "but can continue to protect the individual freedoms which the people of Salotai cherish"
Uh, who says they cherish them? Certainly that was never implied in my post; in fact, the opposite is true - they want Imperial rule. They don't like democracy, they don't like the Confederation, they want the Empire. Now, you can conquer the planet militarily and lose face, or leave. Your choice.
11) Presently...
“People of Salotai,” announced the Premier, “You have heard the call for revolution by Commodore Vaseli of the Imperial Navy. It is a call for needless bloodshed. For even if it is your wish to join the Empire, it can be accomplished bloodlessly and without inhumane brutality. If it is yours, the people’s wish, to join one government or another, or perhaps best yet, remain neutral, so shall I and the government elected endeavor to make that dream a reality. Let us throw down our weapons and pick up our pens, for it is said that the pen is mightier than the sword, and so it is true. Let us talk, and let us debate this matter ourselves and let us make this choice on our own. Let us not fall to this fallacy of black and white, that one government is only right, and the other purely wrong. Let us debate this, let us see past the rhetoric and into the shades of gray to see which one, if any, is a government which we can support. Pro-Consul Thorn of the Confederation has offered us an oath that the Confederation will not force us to choose one side or another, but will protect our right of self-determination. I ask of the Imperial commander to offer the same oath, for the betterment of Salotai’s great people.”
Eliminate this, as the Premier already shot himself. Unless he's speaking as a ghost rising up from the grave.
Now, I'm sorry to have to ask this, but please rewrite your entire post to include the facts that the population hates the Confederation, loves the Empire, that the Premier is dead, that the military is pro-Empire and threatening to destroy the Confederation fleet, and that there is no mass riot. If you do not, I will ask for moderator review and request that they make an unbiased decision on the thread. Thank you.
For the moderators: I am sorry to have to do this in this format, but it seems that everything else I have tried has not worked. I have spoken with Corise over IM and PM during the last debate over his first post in the thread, and he ignored everything I said to the point where I just said, "The heck with it" and worked with his post. I cannot do that this time. So, if his response is not forthcoming and in a manner such that he rewrites the post in question and eliminates the retconning, I ask that we be allowed a place in which to make our respective cases known before the moderators and an unbiased decision to be rendered by such moderators. I do not wish this to be turned into a large OOC war like Hunters and Gatherers, and therefore will not post again in this thread. Again, I am sorry for the necessity of using an open forum for this matter, but I have followed the protocols set down for dealing with a situation such as this, having spoken to Corise over PM, IM, and having even discussed the issue with a board admin. This was, I felt, the only recourse left to me.
