A conviently "overlooked" incident in WW2
Posts: 4025
  • Posted On: Feb 29 2008 8:43pm
This article shows why the German U-boats in WW2 stopped rescuing survivors and even executed some of them. Interesting of note that the person who ordered the bombing was never brought up the charges and that U.S. command still denies wrongdoing, despite the Germans being brought up on trial after the war for commencing similar practicies;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident
Posts: 153
  • Posted On: Feb 29 2008 9:48pm
Interesting.

Just goes to show that reality isn't so much black and white.
Posts: 149
  • Posted On: Feb 29 2008 10:15pm
Reality is never black and white. Ok, well, that statement is even a black and white statement. Reality typically is colored in many shades of grey, usually, but there are rare black and white occurrences.
Posts: 217
  • Posted On: Feb 29 2008 10:26pm
alls fair in love and war.
Posts: 97
  • Posted On: Feb 29 2008 10:59pm
History is written by the victors, and i doubt the U.S. wanted to advertise this.
Posts: 101
  • Posted On: Mar 1 2008 6:03am
Wikipedia
Under the Hague Conventions, hospital ships are protected from attack, but their identity must be communicated to belligerents (III, 1-3), they must be painted white with a Red Cross emblem (III, 5), and must not be used for other purposes (III, 4). Since a submarine remained a military vessel even if hors de combat, the Red Cross emblem did not confer automatic protection, although in many cases it would have been allowed as a practical matter. The order given by Richardson has been called a possible war crime, but the use of a Red Cross flag by an armed military vessel would be a violation under the Geneva Convention of 1949 (II, 44). There is no provision in either convention for temporary designation of a hospital or rescue ship.



That's right, history never is black and white, and neither is this incident. The prisoners were mostly Italian POWs, submarines are never seen as rescue craft, the Americans may well have determined that allowing the Germans to rescue close to two thousand soldiers who might be redeployed into combat operations was unstrategic. The Geneva conventions start to get pretty dicey when it comes to prisoner treatment if it looks like the prison is going to be taken over by the enemy - do you allow thousands of currently-unarmed but soon-to-be armed prisoners go?

Shades of grey, even here.
Posts: 1621
  • Posted On: Mar 7 2008 11:20pm
Always.

As a soldier and German, I see the logic in the American commander's orders to attack the U-boote since he was not informed of what the submarines were doing. However, he should have been informed that the submarines were in the process of rescuing survivors - including British military personnel and civilians, not only Italain POWs - thus the crime is not with the American commander but rather the American pilot.

During the Great War, it was written policy for U-boote to surface, announce their attack, and give the crew a chance to debark before the ship was sunk. More often than not the Uboot would rescue or transport the crews to neutral ports and on a few occassion into British ports under white flags. However, this became impossible when the Allies started arming merchant ships that fired as soon as the submarine's surfaced. The chivalric thing to do now became the dangerous thing to do.

U-boot war is a tricky business indeed - to act one way seems smart but inhuman, another way gallant but foolish if others do not know your intentions.


In this case, under a white flag/red cross banner, the U-boots should not have been attacked. However, this is dismissed the same as the American soldeirs who shot German prisoners during Normandy and Falaise and the Ardennes, etc. (Not that we were clean by any means, but most of our horrid and shameful actions were done by the SS. There was no such lineation in the Allied Armies.)


It was said best - War is Hell
Posts: 217
  • Posted On: Mar 8 2008 3:27am
bastard ally armies. being sneaky dogs like that.

kinda like how the sneaky nazis tried to erase an entire people from the continent.
Posts: 4025
  • Posted On: Mar 8 2008 3:42am
The Writer
bastard ally armies. being sneaky dogs like that.

kinda like how the sneaky nazis tried to erase an entire people from the continent.


They were not the first, nor will they be the last. Every country, every civilization, has it's sins. Some are greater than others, but we need not judge the people of modern Germany for the sins of their past generations.
Posts: 2558
  • Posted On: Mar 8 2008 3:51am
Thus his specific reference to Nazis. :P